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Lake Lanier is Too Full, Time to Drain It


There was an announcement today that the army corps of Engineers is going to increase the water flows out of Lake Lanier.

Representatives from Georgia, Florida and Alabama regularly get to together on a conference call with the Corps of Engineers to discuss water issues. Thursday’s call produced bad news for Georgia and Lake Lanier.

The Corps of Engineers denied metro Atlanta’s request to minimizewater releases from Lake Lanier for another month. It was good news for Florida and Alabama who opposed the corps’ decision last year to reduce releases from November through April 30.

With the summer months rapidly coming up and the lake still below “normal” levels, it seems a bit premature to start draining the lake just because the past 6 months have had abnormally high water levels.

Read more commentary here.

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218 Responses to “Lake Lanier is Too Full, Time to Drain It”

  1. Chicken Little Says:

    Jimmy cracked corn…..

    AND I DON’T CARE

    BGAWK!

  2. DSE Says:

    Seems pretty stupid all around. They are going to drain more from the lake at a time when the downstream river flows are well within normal parameters and the other reservoirs are substantially full. With the result of more water going into the ocean, which last I checked wasn’t in any danger of running out of water, and less water available to drain out of Lanier at a time when we might need it during the summer months or if the drought returns.

  3. Chicken Little Says:

    DSE Says:
    May 6th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Seems pretty stupid all around

    Of course, you don’t work for the Corps of Engineers

    BUT YOU DID SLEEP AT A HOLIDAY INN EXPRESS LAST NIGHT

    BGAWK!

  4. DSE Says:

    apparently those that are making the decisions didn’t sleep at a holiday inn express. The downstream lakes are all full with the exception of West Point Lake, which is down less than a foot and of course is probably filling up from today’s and yesterday’s rains in Atlanta. Lake Eufaula is about to overflow and they’ve been getting pounded all day today with more rain. What harm could there possibly be in letting Lanier fill up for another month while the rest of the water system is dealing with potential flooding?

  5. Chicken Little Says:

    economic crisis, terror alerts, water shortage………BGAWK!

  6. rkolter Says:

    Well, it isn’t as if they were going to keep minimal flow running eternally. It was a temporary solution; and apparently the ACE thinks that the lake’s level is sustainable.

    This could go one of two ways, both of which are good for Georgia.

    Either the levels are again sustainable, in which case the drought is over or nearly so and life is good and your state government can get back to ignoring the problem until the next drought. *sigh*

    Or, they aren’t sustainable in which case ACE will have egg on it’s face and Georgia will have leverage to request a permenant reduction in water flow from Lanier to downstream resources.

  7. New to the area Says:

    I moved to the Lake Lanier area in July, when the lake was so far down that people were really panicking. Since I arrived, we’ve had some good rainy days, and I have watched the lake slowly rise. I was getting really excited about the lake being nearly to full pool, and looking forward to enjoying some of the lake activities, but now they are going to let the water back out? This makes no sense to me…

    What if those who live here decide that if the officials say that the lake is fine, we can all waste water again? We’ll be right back where we started. Maybe the officials who make the decisions should practice what they preach about water conservation. Perhaps then things would not get to the crisis scenario.

  8. Chicken Little Says:

    FOR SALE (cheep!)

    DEAD POOL CALCULATOR

    LIKE NEW

    BGAWK!

  9. jase Says:

    hey there all i was just reading up on water shortage crises and mobile water units and i couldnt find anything anywhere in the world and i found this website http://www.geneco2009.com a small engineering company in new zealand? and it displays products they sell and theyve got listed desalination units? i enquired about these units and they can make them biger and to order and they claim they can produce 1 litre of fresh clean h2o out of salt water pond, lake, river water e.t.c for 0.0015 cents USD. i mean isnt that cheap? or is there anything out there more economical then these advertised units? could someone maybe whos researched this let me no?

  10. Chicken Little Says:

    jase Says:
    May 18th, 2009 at 6:55 am

    hey there all i was just reading up on water shortage crises…

    and you all think LITTLE is the problem

    BGAWK!

  11. Newbie Says:

    What a juvenile blog, when the main poster is a childish troll who won’t allow anyone else to post without making a grade-school joke aftewards.

  12. DSE Says:

    Rkolter says “Well, it isn’t as if they were going to keep minimal flow running eternally. It was a temporary solution; and apparently the ACE thinks that the lake’s level is sustainable.”

    That’s sort of the problem. I wouldn’t expect to keep it going eternally. But politics and bickering aside, I think I can objectively say that its in the best interest of all the stakeholders here to replentish the reservoir furthest upstream as long as those downstream aren’t impacted by it. Look at the lakes downstream from Lanier, and they are all close to full. Lake Eufaula is two feet over full. Lake Seminole is the only one that isn’t within six inches of full pool, but it is within a foot and certainly doesn’t have a shortage. It seems like a really silly arguement when Florida and Alabama are saying “drain Lanier even though our lakes are full”. You can later use the Lanier reservoir to replentish the downstream likes, but you can’t pump it back upstream should Lanier’s situation deteriorate.

  13. Chicken Little Says:

    DSE STFU

    are you an engineer? can you back up your statements with facts?

    BGAWK!

  14. Newbie Says:

    Looks like Lake Lanier is less than five feet from full pool – 1066.10 on May 31.

    That’s up 15 feet from its low last December.

  15. BertBamboo Says:

    Isn’t it amazing? In 2006 we had a 1.74 inch deficit, in 2007 we were 18.35 inches below the 30 year average and in 2008 we had another 8.77 inch deficit. An then we ran another defict in Jan and Feb 2009 of 3.13 inches. So only the past 3 months of this year have experienced above average rainfall. The cumulative 3-year, two-month (38 months) deficit beginning with Jan 2006 and ending Feb 2009 was 31.99 inches.

    In 2009 for the most recent 3 months (March, April and May) we have seen a mere 3.9 inches to the positive and the lake is on its way to being nearly full. With the predicted rain in June we may get very close.

    It’s absolutley amazing that the climatological ‘distater’ we have been experiencing for the past 2 years is so quickly resolved with only slightly above normal rainfall for only a 3 month period. No tropical depressions dumping feet of water into the lake were required to saves us. It might make one conclude that the severity of the drought was greatly overstated.

    Will the climate fear mongers ever accept that weather moves in cycles?

  16. Newbie Says:

    “It’s absolutley amazing that the climatological ‘distater’ we have been experiencing for the past 2 years is so quickly resolved with only slightly above normal rainfall . . . ”

    Depending on your definition of “resolved,” you might have to consider the considerable conservation efforts that were put in place more than a year ago.

    However, all points leading to the conclusion that “Droughts come and go, so what?,” need to address the fact that with our current and projected population and current water infrastructure, we’re too often on the brink of a major problem any time there’s a drought.

  17. BertBamboo Says:

    “….with our current and projected population and current water infrastructure, we’re too often on the brink of a major problem any time there’s a drought.”

    Pretty much the way it’s always been, big population or small population. The problem isn’t major (except to the fear mongers), just transitory.

  18. Chicken Little Says:

    …..and to think, Carol practically GAVE away her house because she thought Atlanta was going to run out of water!

    Little smells a lawsuit! (hope Mickey gots insurance!)

    BGAWK!

  19. Newbie Says:

    How sad for this board’s troll, that he lurked for 12 days, waiting to add a cute little jokes for his “cyber friends.”

    Can you say, “Future Workplace Shooter”?

  20. Newbie Says:

    “The problem isn’t major (except to the fear mongers), just transitory.”

    So millions of dollars in lost revenue isn’t major to you?

    A recurring problem that costs millions of dollars and hurts homeowners and businesses isn’t major?

    The drought is over, but what about the water shortage? Aren’t most cities still under water-use restrictions?

    You see no “major” benefit in adressing this problem?

    It’s just fear-mongering?

    Let me guess. . . you’re Southern, a Conservative Republican, Born-Again who thinks global warming is a myth on our 4,000-year-old planet.

  21. soccer guy Says:

    I find it quite ironic that those who frequent this blog make fun of those who use the blog. One seems to find the need to be intellectually superior and politically misinformed and subject it to those who are enjoying the blog whether others like their comments or agree. Who cares how many days he didn’t post and isn’t it sad one keeps track so they can belittle others. I enjoy the info on the lake and the humor of some as all blogs have. It isn’t required for all those to aquire their taste. So keep on giving opinions and for others keep on bgawking as some probably can’t wait. I hope the put downs and belittle is just a fun way for some to share their interests in the lake and really isn’t reflective of their feelings toward those that don’t use it as they do. Bounce!

  22. Newbie Says:

    “It isn’t required for all those to aquire their taste.”

    This is not about taste in humor.

    You have a troll here, who, from day one, has mocked those who sincerely believe that Georgia has a water shortage problem and would like to talk about it.

    His constant passive-aggressive insults (in the form of “humor”) don’t lend anything to this board.

    It also diminishes the board to have half the posts filled with “bgawk.” How serious a resource can it be, and how seriously can you take the info if the the main poster is her for personal self-aggrandizement.

    Can you imagine the woody CL has right now, reading about himself?

    Board trolls LIVE for this type of recognition and interaction which they can’t get in their personal lives.

    If some right-wing nut wants to come here and post what he/she feels is objective information (with links to stats, articles, etc.) saying GW and the drought are a myth, I have no problem with that.

    But when people come here and post, they are frequently mocked with, “the sky is falling!”

    I mean, it’s incessant.

    And how lonely does someone have to be to NEED to be the source of “humor” on an environmental-discussion board.

    I visit a baseball chat room to check scores when the Braves aren’t on TV, and there’s a troll who shows up to do nothing but post, “Braves suck! Ha ha, Brave lose!”

    A troll is a troll.

    “. . . isn’t it sad one keeps track so they can belittle others.”

    It took two seconds to look at the two dates on the post. Nice observation.

    “I hope the put downs and belittle is just a fun way for some to share their interests in the lake and really isn’t reflective of their feelings toward those that don’t use it as they do.”

    It’s tiring. You come here to learn and share information, and someone constantly mocks the posters and changes the tone of EVERY thread with junior high quips.

    No one minds humor.

    Two years of the same “humorous” post gets mind-numbing.

  23. Chicken Little Says:

    I WISH MY BROTHER GEORGE WAS HERE

    BGAWK!

  24. soccer guy Says:

    I find it quite astonishingly that your argument about someone not bringing anything to the table in regards to the lake chatting that this is what you just wrote. Insults and put downs are probably what he is feeding off of. Mocking him about being lonely because he is a troll. Really? How does that make him any more lonely than perhaps someone who writes about a lake. Your rapier wit about my observation of the days. Wow. I feel so stupid now. Come on get over yourself. Your genuine interest in the lake and the blog is to be commended but your superior attitude towards those who maybe aren’t or maybe they are isn’t deserved. i also keep up with the braves blog and most of them are about BBQ , music reviews, and off the wall comments are all over it. This is a blog. Not structured and governed by left wing nuts who want to run everything. One always have the option of not participating if it is too much to handle. Just so you won’t blow a gasket I’m glad the lake is recovering.

  25. Newbie Says:

    >I find it quite astonishingly that your argument about someone not bringing anything >to the table in regards to the lake chatting that this is what you just wrote.

    This is not my total contribtion to this site.

    >Insults and put downs are probably what he is feeding off of.

    Go to wiki or google to learn about trolls. Your obesrvation is spot on. Trolls are loners, often abused, who come to chat rooms to insult the group and receive more abuse.

    My problem here is that a moderator allows and encouages a troll at his site.

    >Mocking him about being lonely because he is a troll. Really? How does that make him any more lonely than perhaps someone who writes about a lake.

    I don’t “write about a a lake.” Many people visit many Web sits and contribute something useful. It doesn’t make them lonely . . . it makes them Democrats. :-)

    Seriously, quite reaching with these huge truths you’re providing.

    >Your rapier wit about my observation of the days. Wow. I feel so stupid now. Come on get over yourself.

    Excuse me? You made an over-reaching statement in order to insult. I pointed out just how ebmarrassing your argument was.

    >your superior attitude towards those who maybe aren’t or maybe they are isn’t deserved.

    Nice pontificating. Why do you use the plural? Where do you make the leap that I have superior attitude because I complained about one poster insulting the others on a regular basis? You are flailing every time you make a statement.

    >This is a blog. Not structured and governed by left wing nuts who want to run everything.

    Again, you’re really not coherent. I never asked for any structure for this board to suite my taste. I simply pointed out that there’s CLEARLY an infant at this board who contributes nothing other than insults.

    It’s also annoying to click on this link, see there’s a new post, think their may be some new, useful information, then, after scrolling down the page, find it’s another “bgawk” post. Not a huge inconvenience, but frustrating because it could be so easily stopped.

    >One always have the option of not participating if it is too much to handle.

    While you may run away from problems, I’d prefer to contribute to its solution. I simply pointed out that I am tired of this board’s troll. You then change yoru handle from Chicken Little to soccer guy and waste more of our time defending yourself.

  26. Newbie Says:

    one more thing

    BGAWK!

  27. Newbie Says:

    Pathetic.

  28. Jeremy Says:

    For all of you looking to step up and take ACTION, I invite you to check out Corporate Accountability International’s website. Take their “Think Outside the Bottle” pledge, too. http://stopcorporateabuse.org/category/sitecategories/water

    Just remember, water is the essential ingredient for life. Let’s treat it well!

  29. Newbie Says:

    Thanks for the link.

    After no gain in Lanier’s level on the 9th (only the second no-gain day in months), the lake’s level actually went down on the 10th, despite the heavy rains of the night before.

    http://water.sam.usace.army.mil/gage/acf/prob1.txt

    Does anyone know if/when the Corps started releasing water from Lanier (the original topic of this thread)?

  30. Chicken Little Says:

    yo Newbie, haven’t you heard? Sonny said THE DROUGHT IS OVER

    BGAWK

  31. Newbie Says:

    Get a life, loner.

  32. New guy Says:

    http://tinymicros.com/lanier/
    states the inflow and outflow. it has definatly increased over the last few days. the outflow is about double what it use to be.

  33. Chicken Little Says:

    Life on the farm is kinda laid back

    Ain’t much an old chicken like me can’t hack

    Early to rise, early to the sack

    Thank God I’m a chicken BGAWK!

  34. Newbie Says:

    Thanks for the info, New guy.

  35. JC Says:

    LOL haven’t check the blog for three months and it still makes me laugh when I read the comments!

  36. Chicken Little Says:

    Wonderful.

    Maybe we could all meet for a picnic (at Lake Lanier!?!?)

    I’ll bring the earthworms.

    BGAWK!

  37. Sanity Fair Says:

    This worries me – I don’t feel like they’re taking good care of the water they already have NOW.

  38. nitza Says:

    Hi from Washington. I have been following the problem in Georgia off and on for over a year. While I am glad you are getting some much needed rain; I am concerned about how soon the Engineers are wanting to release water from the lake. A month or two of “good” rain does not a weather pattern make. The driest months are coming up. Do you have any imput in the decision making process?

  39. Chicken Little Says:

    yeah, stop releasing water, let the dam breech, thousands of people will die in the ensuing floods and we can blame Mickey, Newbie, RKoultre and nitza for their deaths

    you all are a bunch of misinformed nincompoops

  40. Newbie Says:

    What a lonely, lonely person.

  41. Chicken Little Says:

    Newbie Says:
    June 17th, 2009 at 9:07 am

    What a lonely, lonely person.

    -

    I know you are but what am I?

    BGAWK!

  42. new guy Says:

    why would the dam breech? do u have any data to back this statement up?

  43. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    lol @ chicken little.

    sad. just sad. how much time have u invested in your bgawk comments?

    i almost feel sad for u, but then again, u DO choose to spend your life doing this so who am i to say that your life seems pointless?

    if trolling on a water shortage blog gives u meaning and purpose in life, that’s ok with me, i guess.

  44. Chicken Little Says:

    18 minutes this year, 32 minutes total lost year, my records don’t go back further than 2008.

    I would have just wasted that watching cartoons on hulu.com, most of those I’ve already seen.

    And for those of you who care, the lake has RISEN over a foot since the “too full time to drain article” was posted, and they had over 4″ of rain in the Lanier basin yesterday which could have led to major flooding (possible dam breech?) had they not increased releases from the lake.

    BGAWK!

  45. Chicken Little Says:

    oh yeah, Carol is looking for a room to rent (cheap) since she went broke selling her house at a loss

    meanwhile, both the people that didn’t move to Atlanta because the Water Shortage blog scared them away have since committed suicide

    I HOPE YOU’RE ALL HAPPY NOW!

    BGAWK!

  46. Newbie Says:

    “And for those of you who care, the lake has RISEN over a foot since the “too full time to drain article” was posted . . . ”

    Since it’s high of 1066.71 on July 18, it has steadily decreased to 1066.02 (it’s evidently not going to be allowed to get to full pool now -1071).

    Your lack of friends/life/sense of humor has, unfortunately stayed the same during the period. This blog is your place to feel liked/important/funny.

    There’s a similar troll at one of the Cubs chat rooms. He doesn’t follow the Cubs; he just shows up to type, “Cubs suck!” and make “Yes!” comments every time there’s a double play or a loss. He has no interest in the games or the other people there . . . he’s just filled with anger and loneliness and wants to incite conflict.

    Compare his reasons for going to that site with your need for visiting this site.

    A group of people come together to discuss the water situation in our area, and you show up, mocking every poster, every time, to fill your loneliness and vent your anger toward the people you feel have hurt you.

    Dismiss this with another “bgawk” and make another one of your bon mots about the Cubs to deflect attention, but understand that trolls at all Internet sites behave the same for the same reasons. They are lonely, angry and trying to find friends, while taking their pain out on strangers they perceived to have wrong them.

    They have a love/hate relationship with the people they attack. You want to be loved for your “humor,” but need to attack the same peole in case they don’t (“I’ll show them all!”).

    I do pity you and this other guy. It must be horrible to live with so much pain and loneliness.

    I just hope I’m not at work or the McDonald’s or the mall when you show up and start shooting.

  47. Chicken Little Says:

    Braves 4 Cubs 1

    Cubs suck

    BGAWK!

  48. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    go ahead and add another minute to your “time wasted” total, chicken little.

    then go back to reloading the semi-automatic while crying in the fetal position.

  49. David Says:

    Uh oh.

  50. soccer guy Says:

    newbie and the others who only respond to what chicken little says are no less a troll than he. you offer nothing other than responding to his comments and contribute nothing to the lake level blog. respond all you want about your self claiming contributions and higher than thou attitude towards others as i will no longer follow the blog as little or nothing is offered due to the recovery. for those who did offer insight and info regarding the lake i enjoyed following it the last year and a half but people like newbie i can’t tolerate. chicken little is what he is and at least he isn’t insulting and mean spirited but is irritating to those who may be interested in the blog. hopefully the blog will continue for those interested and for those to post comments and remember tolerance to those who may be a troll or not isn’t such a bad thing.

  51. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    tolerance toward trolls is a good thing?

    u just may be stupider than the troll himself.

    please stay away from the internet before u accidentally catch something on fire.

  52. Newbie Says:

    “you offer nothing other than responding to his comments and contribute nothing to the lake level blog.”

    Re-read my posts, you self-righteous twit.

    “chicken little is what he is and at least he isn’t insulting . . . ”

    Are you kidding? He’s done nothing but mock every poster for the last two years, to satisfy his loneliness. What’s his purpose for coming here? Look no further than his screen name.

    He is here to tell everyone who contributes that they are losers for believing Atlanta has a water shortage (“the sky is falling”).

    Thanks for giving it another opportunity to get the attention he so desperately requires to stay here (among his pretend friends).

    THAT’S why this board is dead. No one wants to post if they’re going to be mocked each time.

    The moderator killed his own board by keeping this troll on it.

    I’m gone . . . another Chicken Little victory.

  53. Chicken little fan Says:

    I heart chicken little
    BGAWK!

  54. Chicken little fan Says:

    I love the Chicken little posts but the most clever thing is in the name. Our government is out to first scare us… Water shortage, enonomic crisis, swine flu, global warming, guns, gas crisis, health care crisis… Then they move in for the control part of the equation… Water mandates, bank controls, better wear a mask, buy a hybrid, regulate guns(doing great in Chicago), use mass transportation, you need us to provide you with health care blah blah blah or BGAWK BGAWK BGAWK! To think that parts of the greatest nation on earth will run out of water is obsurd. Thank you chicken little. Oh Cubs suck! BGAWK!

  55. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    absurd or obsurd?

    hard to take the rest of your comment seriously when you can’t spell for shit, chicken little.

    of course you LOVE the chicken little posts. not because they offer anything interesting but because yes, the last post was most likely by chicken little masquerading as a fan.

    moron. get off the internet. get out there in the world and face your fears. i promise the sky won’t fall.

  56. Tired of this nonsense Says:

    Wow, these people from the “Waco! Ruby Ridge! Black Helicopters! Global Warming is fake! We didn’t walk on the moon!” crowd really think that a group of people (our neighbors, by and large), really want to “control” all of us, and put rules in place for the sake of having rules.

    You site gun regulation as the problem in Chicago right now. . . you WANT everyone armed when you go to the grocery store, a movie, to dinner, or with your kids to the playground? If you think that’s the answer, why not spend a few weeks with your family in Kabul or Beirut or Baghdad. Are you kidding?

    And yes, water will become a more precious commodity than oil in the next 10 years; start reading some newspapers or magazines and stop watchng FOX (“We found WMD in Iraq”) News. Even your Born-Again scientists agree that water will be a worlwide problem soon . . . that’s a no brainer.

    Go visit a country like Bolivia, which is losing its glaciers and see what they’re trying to do to figure out where they’ll get water from in 10 years now that that supply is going. Try to figure out why AL and FL are suing GA over water rights. Or why Colorado has been in court with Nebraska for 25 years.

    The, “I love my country but hate my goverment” crowd never say why “liberals” want control, just that it’s true.

    You don’t think the liberals in Georgia have to give up watering their lawns, or start conserving water, or get higher water bills, like the rest of us?

    How can we take you seriously when you don’t even know the Cubs are in first place in the NL Central?

    D’oh!

  57. Tired of this nonsense Says:

    Sorry . . . should have been “cite.”

  58. Chicken little fan Says:

    Wow such hostility here but that’s what I expect from a liberal… LOL typo on the iPhone… New observer here… I watch fox and CNN I have an open mind… Yes I want the option of someone to carry a gun, you see that confuses the criminals and maybe they will think twice before they pull out their gun. The world is not going to run out of water 2/3 of the earth is water. I know the cubs very well… Half game in first place in July mmm okay but don’t get your hopes to high Lol I was a season ticket holder from 1998 to 2008. After last year I’m done as a Cubs fan….soooo i know them very well. I’ll watch from time to time but nothing big. The neatest part of it all is freedom of speech so I can cluck all I want. BGAWK! I bet your fun to live with NOT BGAWK!

  59. Chicken little fan Says:

    I love the chicken little posts because humor can illustrate how freaking retarded you are. You are chicken little! Argggggggg were going to run out of water argggggggg pig flu arggggggggg mortgage crisis!!!!! Well life goes on, and I, a non-chicken little follower am enjoying the ride. It’s gotta suck thinking your going to run out of water…

  60. Chicken little fan Says:

    Oops I almost forgot… BGAWK!

  61. Chicken Little Says:

    first of all, I want to thank ALL my fans……you could have read any blog on the internet and you’re here with me…I appreciate that..

    C to the izzo, L to the izzay…fo shizzle my nizzle used to drink ripple down in L.A. (lower Alabama)

    BGAWK!

  62. Tired of this nonsense Says:

    These posts and posters (and now this blog) are great examples of why the Republican party is dead:

    #1 – “I want the option of someone to carry a gun, you see that confuses the criminals and maybe they will think twice before they pull out their gun.”

    That’s the answer to gun violence. Don’t address the problem. . . just carp about those offering ideas to combat the problem. Just give evereyone guns and create a society where pissed off high school kids have semi-automatic weapons. Brilliant. The Ann Coulter school of reason.

    #2 – “2/3 of the earth is water”

    Salt water, idiot. Or didn’t Sean Hannity want you to know this?

    #3 – “Argggggggg were going to run out of water”

    You DON’T think Lake Lanier reached record lows last year?

    You DON’T think we needed water restrictions last year?

    You DON’T think farmers are struggling with irrigation costs?

    You DON’T think AL and FL are suing GA over water rights?

    #3 – “argggggggg pig flu”

    Yes, all of the deaths worldwide were made up by CNN, and doctors were concerned for no reason. Thank God people like you weren’t in charge, and people were vaccinated and quarantined to make the outbreak less severe.

    #4 – “arggggggggg mortgage crisis!”

    This is my favorite. Do you NOT know the greatest economic downturn since the Depression was caused by the mortgage mess, and the domino effect it caused? Did Rush actually convince you we have 10 percent unemployment because Bush didn’t lower taxes on the rich enough?

    You actually think there are no problems in this world, and that all we need to do is dissolve government and live in anarchy?

    #5 – “Well life goes on”

    Yes, for millions of people who have lost their jobs, homes, retirements, educations. Not to mention the hundreds of millions of poor who will suffer globally for years after the U.S. recovers because of our greed.

    #6 – “first of all, I want to thank ALL my fans……you could have read any blog on the internet and you’re here with me…I appreciate that.”

    This one is the most heartbreaking.

    This is a classic troll. He comes to be the center of attention, and CL actually typed that he believes this is HIS blog. He finally has the attention he can’t get at work, school, among friends, etc.

    He is a classic Republican.

    Instead of creating something positive (his own blog), he waits for doers who stick their neck out and try to do something good and does nothing but tear it down.

    And he succeeded. The moderator or creator of this blog evidently doesn’t bother to update it anymore, because he’s been told it’s a joke for two years, while he watches each thread deteriorate into unrelated bickering.

    CL picked the correct first word for his screen name. No guts. No ambition. No future.

    That’s why, like most trolls, this one is probably under or unemployed, with little or no social life and living with parents.

    Using “bgawk” as a way to deflect attention away from his pain/cowardice shows that he doesn’t even have the conviction to stand by what he ostensibly believes (wants to have it both ways . . . “I was just kidding!”).

    I feel bad for whoever created this Web site.

    P.S. Repeatedly using “your” for “you’re” is not a typo.

    Another example of why the GOP is dead. By recruiting party members using racism, homophobia and anti-Semitism, they attracted the under and uneducated and gave themselves no chance to cultivate thinking leaders of the future.

    Think about who listens to AM talk radio for hours each day. . . people with responsible jobs, or the unemployed or underemployed? That’s why “liberal talk radio” failed. Liberals have jobs and don’t need shepherds to think for them.

  63. Chicken Little Says:

    Obama, Kerry, Gore.

    Who are the last three presidential candidates that received a vote from Chicken Little?

    Guess it’s back to Psych101 for that Mr. Nonsense!

    21 minutes and counting!

    BGAWK!

  64. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    chicken – that the FUCK are u ever talking about?

    jesus christ, how sad is your life?

  65. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    chicken, what the FUCK are u ever talking about?

    jesus christ, how sad is your life?

  66. Tired of this nonsense Says:

    He doesn’t know. What did I say about him using “humor” to deflect any responsibility, or try to think. Remember, he’s a “star” now, with his own blog. Oooooooh!

  67. Andrea Says:

    Uh oh.

  68. GA's Water Boy Says:

    Sorry Andrea,

    This blog is dead.

    The moderator let a troll make a joke of it and any serious posters left.

    Score one for the bad guys.

  69. Chicken Little Says:

    BGAWK!

  70. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    chicken little, why haven’t u put a bullet in your brain yet? the world is waiting…

  71. Chicken Little Says:

    www,

    Cause I got my finger in the dike!

    BGAWK!,

    CL

  72. Walt Says:

    Maybe the blog is dead because the danger has passed, hysteria replaced with reason… Hopefully we will have the same cycle in the economy

  73. BertBamboo Says:

    Excellent point Walt. Lake Lanier is now at nearly the same level it was in Apr 2007, immediatly preceeding the drought cycle. With another cool, wet winter the lake will be in great shape next Spring and we will move through anothre weather cycle, the same as it has always happened.

    I’ll be installing rain barrels for the 2012/2013 drought.

  74. Chicken Little Says:

    DSE Says:
    May 6th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

    Seems pretty stupid all around. They are going to drain more from the lake at a time when the downstream river flows are well within normal parameters and the other reservoirs are substantially full.

    DSE Says:
    May 7th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    What harm could there possibly be in letting Lanier fill up for another month while the rest of the water system is dealing with potential flooding?

    New to the area Says:
    May 13th, 2009 at 11:04 am

    I moved to the Lake Lanier area in July, when the lake was so far down that people were really panicking. Since I arrived, we’ve had some good rainy days, and I have watched the lake slowly rise. I was getting really excited about the lake being nearly to full pool, and looking forward to enjoying some of the lake activities, but now they are going to let the water back out? This makes no sense to me…

    Sanity Fair Says:
    June 16th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

    This worries me – I don’t feel like they’re taking good care of the water they already have NOW.

    nitza Says:
    June 17th, 2009 at 1:49 am

    Hi from Washington. I have been following the problem in Georgia off and on for over a year. While I am glad you are getting some much needed rain; I am concerned about how soon the Engineers are wanting to release water from the lake.

    Chicken Little Says:
    June 17th, 2009 at 8:18 am

    yeah, stop releasing water, let the dam breech, thousands of people will die in the ensuing floods and we can blame Mickey, Newbie, RKoultre and nitza for their deaths

    BGAWK!

    damn it feels good to be a chicken!

  75. Missting the Point Says:

    Walt Says:
    September 23rd, 2009 at 2:06 pm

    Maybe the blog is dead because the danger has passed,

    WHAT’S THE NAME OF THIS BLOG, ATLANTA DROUGHT, OR ATLANTA WATER SHORTAGE? DO WE HAVE FEWER PEOPLE ALL OF A SUDDEN? MORE RESERVOIRS? MORE CARRYING CAPACITY?

    hysteria replaced with reason…

    YOU MEAN “REPUBLICANS HAVE DROWNED OUT ANYONE WHO’S RESPONSIBLE”

    Hopefully we will have the same cycle in the economy

    YES, AS SOON AS UNEMPLOYMENT HITS 2 PERCENT, WE CAN ALL RACK UP OUR CREDIT CARDS AGAIN, BUY HOUSES WE CAN’T AFFORD, AND CONGRESS CAN DEREGULATE AGAIN.

    DOES WATCHING FOX NEWS AND LISTENING TO AM TALK RADIO MAKE UP FOR HAVING A COLLEGE DEGREE?

    TELL ME THE LONELY TROLL ON THIS BOARD ISN’T A CONSERVATIVE.

    CAN’T WAIT TO READ HIS NEXT “LOOK AT ME” POST.

  76. BertBamboo Says:

    Lake Lanier nearly is up to ’04/’05 levels despite the release of water. And a cold winter is forecast. Another cycle is underway.

  77. jennifer Says:

    The streams nearby should take up the slack.

  78. Walt Says:

    Directed to “Missting the Point Says:”
    Wow you are all over the place with your CAPS RAGE rant.

    WHAT’S THE NAME OF THIS BLOG, ATLANTA DROUGHT, OR ATLANTA WATER SHORTAGE? DO WE HAVE FEWER PEOPLE ALL OF A SUDDEN? MORE RESERVOIRS? MORE CARRYING CAPACITY?

    Point 1, quite good, shows a basic understanding of supply in demand, at least when it comes to water. I would say the floods and the water we are releasing from the lake indicate a surplus. I would say we had more rain.

    YOU MEAN “REPUBLICANS HAVE DROWNED OUT ANYONE WHO’S RESPONSIBLE”

    So why the hate towards republicans? I guess Atlanta has been under republican control for like the last 20 years. Is it not Atlantawatershortage? I owuld look at democrats personally, and responsible, in case you have not figured it out, is not the governments or politicians strong points.

    YES, AS SOON AS UNEMPLOYMENT HITS 2 PERCENT, WE CAN ALL RACK UP OUR CREDIT CARDS AGAIN, BUY HOUSES WE CAN’T AFFORD, AND CONGRESS CAN DEREGULATE AGAIN.

    Nothing to do with water, but since you bring it up.

    Well I would imaginge rebulicans(who are not elected officals) are far to smart to purhcase things they can’t afford. Well maybe it is just me, but seems like common sense. BTW trippling the money supply as the DEMS are want to do is bad for the entire nations purchasing power parity.

    Second, I would say the banks being forced by first the Carter Administation then the Clinton adminstration to give out loans to people that probably could not afford them, making bad bets in essence, was the root cause. There is some government regulation for you. The banks then looked for a way to shed the risk buy securitizing the debt so they could sell it. The BUSH administration should have stopped the programs and pushed harder for insight of the programs when Barney Frank and Maxine Waters (dems by the way that Freddie and Fannie support heavily by the way). So again government “regulation, meddling” at fault.

    DOES WATCHING FOX NEWS AND LISTENING TO AM TALK RADIO MAKE UP FOR HAVING A COLLEGE DEGREE?

    TELL ME THE LONELY TROLL ON THIS BOARD ISN’T A CONSERVATIVE.

    Don’t really watch TV, except for NFL football and Hockey, but I read magazines like the economist and kiplingers and the wallstreet journal and get news online. If Fox gives out degrees, I did not get my BS in Econ or my MBA in Finance and risk management for them.

    It appears to me that LIBS want to eliminate consequences of bad behavior where my ilk, I guess conservatives according to you, seek to stop the behavior

    You like apples….

    HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES

  79. mgajosh Says:

    Looks like Lanier will hit full pool sometime tomorrow. Will Atlanta take advantage of this respite from chronic water shortage to do some serious planning, make infrastructure repairs, encourage on-site water storage for grass watering rather than using treated drinking water for pouring on lawns……

    NAAAAAAH!

  80. Chicken Little Says:

    mgajosh Says:

    ….NAAAAAAH!

    -

    I respectfully disagree.

    BGAWK!

  81. Walt Says:

    State and city are broake and throwing money away at other useless projects

  82. Lanier is Full Says:

    Hit full pool yesterday, evidently.

    http://water.sam.usace.army.mil/gage/acf/prob1.txt

  83. Lanier is Full Says:

    I have to disagree with your contention below.

    “It appears to me that LIBS want to eliminate consequences of bad behavior where my ilk, I guess conservatives according to you, seek to stop the behavior . . . ”

    Abetted by the Dems, the Republicans are the ones who CLEARLY led the charge to deregulate.

    And you’re still crying, “Let the market self-regulate.”

    The Dems are not heroes, but you can’t possibly believe that Republicans seek to stop bad behavior, other than burning “bad” books, trying to ban “bad” music and movies, trying to stop “bad” women from having abortions, trying to stop “bad” religions from getting a fair shake (I don’t see any Crescents or Stars of David in/on our public buildings), keeping “bad” gays from getting dental insurance, etc.

    And wasn’t Gingrich banging his secretary while he was trying to have Clinton impeached for getting a consensual hummer from an adult woman?

    Let’s face it, we’re in this mess largely because Congress is allowed to take bribes, and Republicans (again, abetted by the Dems), de-regulated in exchange for cash (aka “campaign contributions”).

    If you truly read “The Economist,” you wouldn’t have posted your above sentence.

  84. Walt Says:

    Lanier is full,
    This weeks Economist asks when Europe will wake up, but for the non believer no proof will satisfy them.
    I agree some what with your saying about bribes in the form of campaign contributions, but then you must also see it as “bribes” in the form of government funding.
    You say there is to much money in politics, and I say that is true, but there is to much money in government, which you will probably not agree with.
    I would ask which regulations were eliminated by the republican congress, I would say that the Fair Housing Act (FHA),more regulation, is what caused the issue. FHA FORCED BANKS to loan to candidates that they otherwise would not have. This practice started under Carter and was expanded under Clinton. BUSH SHOULD HAVE repealed it, less regulation but failed to do so.
    Look at public schools, another excellent case of government intervention. Are all public schools equal? Are most of them even well run. Are they not better funded than any other education system in the world and yet are alwyas complaining that they do not have enough money.
    Let me ask you , what regulations would you propose, and what regulations do you see that work. More regulations lead to more government power. Thats the great thing about money, it does not care who you are, what color you are or who you know. Everyone has the power to make it and can determine where the want spend it.

  85. wesleywhatwhat Says:

    what moron claims that the american public education system is better funded than “any other education system in the world”?

    such a statement is laughable. your ignorance is showing. it’s evident that u haven’t been anywhere near a classroom in years, which explains a lot of your thinking.

    please stay away from the internet before u hurt yourself.

  86. Lanier is Full Says:

    “I would ask which regulations were eliminated by the republican congress. . . ”

    Don’t know when (under which Congress), they were eliminated, but many/most of the financial regulations which governed lending, leverage, derivatives, corporate reporting, and many of the other “too big to fail” problems we had were loosened up by the Republicans.

    “Look at public schools, another excellent case of government intervention.”

    Wrong. Public schools served this country well for almost 200 years. It wasn’t until the children of Baby Boomers abandoned their responsibilities as parents and started whining about the government not doing their parenting for them that our school system became so badly maligned.

    Teachers, administrators and school boards can’t do jack squat to educate our children if parents don’t make their children read, do their homework, go to the library, etc. Most parents don’t know what classes their children are taking, who their teachers are, which ones they enjoy, etc.

    Quit blaming our education system . . . we didn’t become the success we are/were with private schools, charter schools, home schooling, etc.

    “Let me ask you , what regulations would you propose . . . ”

    I’m not a finance expert. Once they required CEOs to sign the financial statements in the annual reports, you immediately saw them taking more of an interest in oversight and accuracy.

    Allowing lender to make, package and sell bad loans without keeping a realistic percentage of what they created needs to stop (and is, I think).

    Raising captilization rates for insurance companies and other lenders is being done, I believe. Again, I don’t know the technical aspects, but we basically allowed our financial institutions to play with paper, take on incredible risks without proper funding and otherwise pursue quarter-to-quarter earnings regardless of what it did to the business.

    How did SO MANY lenders, banks and insurers fail if they were all acting responsibly? They weren’t acting responsibly; instead, they all acted legally (thanks to Congress).

    “More regulations lead to more government power.”

    Waco! Ruby Ridge! Black Helicopters! The CIA!

    Give it a rest. We are a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We can vote out bad behavior anytime we want. If we don’t, it’s our fault.

    If you blame The Governemnt (oooooh!), you’re only blaming yourself.

    Thats the great thing about money, it does not care who you are, what color you are or who you know. Everyone has the power to make it and can determine where the want spend it.”

    Everyone has the power to make money? Why don’t you put some shoe polish on your face and go into a bank and ask for a business loan? Why don’t you call up a realtor and, in a heavy accent, ask to be shown some nice homes? Why don’t you ask some talented women you know to apply for some CEO jobs?

    THAT’S why need regulations.

    You don’t want an EPA? Then go live next to a factory and get your drinking water from the local streams.

    Quit pretening The Goverment is anything other than us being stupid and lazy.

  87. Lanier is Full Says:

    ” . . . what moron claims that the american public education system is better funded than “any other education system in the world”?”

    Interesting, I would have thought we were.

    Can you provide some stats that show where the U.S. rates in education funding compared to other countries?

  88. Chicken Little Says:

    meanwhile….back at Lake Lanier……..BGAWK!

  89. Walt Says:

    Lanier is full
    I think you have a pretty distorted view of things.
    Education:
    http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/Intlindicators/index.asp?SectionNumber=1&SubSectionNumber=3&IndicatorNumber=101

    Also look at The Economist February/March of this year, don’t have the exact date.

    We would not want things like the truth, facts, get in the wayof your world view.

    In terms of the “Insolvent Banks” the government mandated that the bundled loans were worth nothing, that then had an adverse affect on the balance sheets. Has everyone defaulted, heck even give them a 50% default rate, that is still worth more than nothing. That then triggered other issues with the reserve requirements (what you call captialization rates).

    As far as being a finance whiz, maybe I am one, or maybe someone that pays attention and does research rather than being fed distorted information. If there is a regulation that the republicans widthdrew, I can find no sign of it. Show it to me and I will concede the point, but right now you are using uncited information that I am pretty sure is incorrect.

    As for throwing them out for bad behavior, I don’t think I am the problem, I think you are. So many people so ignorant, so passionate and so litte commitment to finding out the facts.

    As far only certain people can make money, if that is the case look at Camden NJ, my home town and explain to me how I managed to build my self up.

    Your only a victim if you allow yourself to be.

  90. Walt Says:

    Retraction:
    Sorry Lanier is full, in the case of school funding, the ignorance is Wesley What Whats to own and cherish. In terms of all the other fundementals of victimhood, I stand my ground.

  91. Lanier is Full Says:

    “If there is a regulation that the republicans widthdrew, I can find no sign of it.”

    Of course, not, you can’t see it with your head in the sand.

    Seriously, go back to watching FOX News and listening to AM talk radio . . . you might read something here that upsets you . . . the truth.

    Unbelievable sentence above.

  92. Walt Says:

    If it is true, what is it, what legislation are you talking about. Surely a great film maker like M. Moore would have certainly cited the bill that caused the regulation to be laxed

  93. Lanier is Full Says:

    If you wonder why Liberals look down, intellectually, on Conservatives, it’s instances like this one. Great logic. If you don’t respond to me, my argument it correct. Next, we’ll her, “I’m rubber, you’re glue.”

    Why don’t you do a bit of searching, including “Economist” archives.

    Here are (just) two examples:

    The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA), also known as the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, (Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999) is an act of the 106th United States Congress (1999-2001) which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, opening up the market among banking companies, securities companies and insurance companies. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited any one institution from acting as any combination of an investment bank, a commercial bank, and/or an insurance company.

    The banking industry had been seeking the repeal of the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act since the 1980s, if not earlier. In 1987 the Congressional Research Service prepared a report which explored the case for preserving Glass-Steagall and the case against preserving the act.[2]

    Respective versions of the legislation were introduced in the U.S. Senate by Phil Gramm (Republican of Texas) and in the U.S. House of Representatives by Jim Leach (R-Iowa). The third lawmaker associated with the bill was Rep. Thomas J. Bliley, Jr. (R-Virginia), Chairman of the House Commerce Committee from 1995 to 2001.

    NOTE – ALL REPUBLICANS!!!!!!

    The House passed its version of the Financial Services Act of 1999 on July 1st by a bipartisan vote of 343-86 (|Republicans 205–16; Democrats 138–69; Independent/Socialist 0–1),[3] [4] [5] two months after the Senate had already passed its version of the bill on May 6th by a much-narrower 54–44 vote along basically-partisan lines (53 Republicans and one Democrat in favor; 44 Democrats opposed).[6] [7] [8] [9]

    VERY BIPARTISAN!!!!

    The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 was introduced by three Republicans, Gramm, Leach, and Bliley. It repealed the wall that had been put up in the Great Depression, a wall that kept investment banks separate from commercial banks, separate from insurance firms and so on. When that wall got torn down, we ended up with big, hybrid, complicated, uber financial everything companies that we couldn`t have had before. That`s how Citibank ended up eating Travelers Group Insurance to change from Citibank into Citigroup, which just happened to be completely impossible to regulate.

    All of a sudden, with these new, uber, giant, complicated, hybrid firms, the Wall Street cops, the regulators, they were essentially still on horseback while the robbers, the guys trying to get away with anything to make a buck, they were in spaceships. So, we had robbers in spaceship and cops on horseback.

  94. Chicken Little Says:

    Gramm-Leach-Bliley was signed into law by President Clinton

    meanwhile, THEY REALLY ARE DRAINING LANIER!

    BGAWK!

  95. Walt Says:

    Not that wikipedia is the be all end all, but it summarizes it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
    For specific legislation
    http://www.govtrack.us
    I think you guys are old enough to do your own research.
    I don’t see how GLB made things impossible to regulate, did these companies suddenly not have to file public returns? I would say your premise is transparent and false.

  96. Lanier is Full Says:

    OK, beginning during the Reagan years, the Republicans did NOT spend the next 25 years taking campaign contributions from the financial industry to de-regulate many industries, which allowed Wall St. to eventually destroy the economy.

    And there is no Global Warming.

    Thanks Rush Lite.

  97. Walt Says:

    First you say they were deregulated, then because of GLB they were regulated but it was to hard to do. Which was it? SO is Obama an agent of Wall street, because he got more money from the I-Banks than anyone in history.

    1. cause of global warming……the sun.
    That an campaign contributions to a political party

    And research now suggests we are in a cooling cycle due to a lack of Solar activity. When we thawed out of the ice ages, in the 1300′s was it because of man made carbon emissions.

    Try to apply problem solving logic to things, look at history. If your a communist or a new world order guy, that’s fine, but why not just say it, why rely on falsehoods

  98. Lanier is Full Says:

    1. cause of global warming……the sun.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    You could NOT have given more proof that you do not WANT to know the truth, which is why you are incapable of accepting it.

    There’s no global warming and the Repbulicans did not de-regulate the financial industry in exchange for bribes.

    What an unpatriotic, un-Christian citizen.

  99. Lanier is Full Says:

    ” I would say your premise is transparent . . . ”

    BTW, can you please describe “transparent”?

  100. Lanier is Full Says:

    “First you say they were deregulated, then because of GLB they were regulated but it was to hard to do. Which was it? SO is Obama an agent of Wall street, because he got more money from the I-Banks than anyone in history.”

    Does lying work for you at the office or in bars?

    GLB was ONE instance of Republican-led deregulation over a 30-year history, which I said was abetted by the Dems. It was not my whole argument, but you are evidently counting on readers of this blog not reading earlier posts.

    Here’s some more for you to read . . .

    “Through this election year we have heard Senator McCain repeat time and time again,”I’m always for less regulation. But I am aware of the view [of Democrats] that there is a need for government oversight. … But I am a fundamentally a deregulator. I’d like to see a lot of the government regulations eliminated.”

    “Then, in 2000, the Republican controlled Senate Banking Committee, controlled by Congress and Phil Gramm who is McCain’s current financial advisor, pushed through a deregulatory exemption on electronic commodities trading without a Senate hearing or debate.”

    “A generation ago, banks, credit unions and S&Ls issued home mortgages that they retained on their books as an asset. The lenders had a stake in receiving full repayment of the loans from credit-worthy borrowers. But after deregulation, mortgages began to be sold to firms that cobbled the loans together to create mortgage-backed securities, or mortgage bonds.”

    “The “Enron Loophole” legislation was created and attached to U.S. Senate legislation in December 2000 by McCain campaign co-chair Senator Phil Gramm at the behest of Enron executives. In fact, internal Enron documents, which were released in 2002, revealed that the Houston-based company WROTE THE LEGISLATION FOR GRAHAM!!!!!! In 2006, the “Enron Loophole” allowed Amaranth Advisers hedge fund to shift its trades from the regulated New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) to the unregulated Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) in Atlanta. That let Amaranth corner the natural gas market, betting that futures prices would rise. The hedge fund lost about $6 billion and imploded as natural gas prices fell to a two-year low in September 2006.The so-called “Enron Loophole” deregulation legislation allowed Enron to speculatively exploit and manipulate electricity commodity trading in California energy markets in the summer of 2001, spawning artificial electricity shortages, steep climbs in electricity prices and rolling brownouts across California. Republicans, including Texas Senator John Cornyn, have threatened to filibuster U.S. Senate business to block the efforts of Democratic Senators to close the “Enron Loophole.”

    “Republicans controlled both the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate during the 2002-2006 period when all the now defaulting sub-prime home loans were written, packaged as “investment securities” and sold to investors.”

    “. . . changes in bank regulation in 1988 and 2001 lowered banks’ reserves. The reserves, kept in banks’ vaults and with their regional Fed banks, are their cash cushion; when borrowers don’t pay back loans, banks can cover the shortfall with their reserves. That meant they had to hold on to less money when they made loans, effectively freeing more money to lend, but giving them a much thinner cushion if loans soured. The regulations also allowed banks to keep some debts off their balance sheets _ the snapshot of a company’s financial condition that helps investors gauge its health. Off-balance sheet deals, which led to the downfall of Enron Corp., let companies take on debt or make loans without putting those loans on the books shareholders and regulators see. As a result, banks’ total loan portfolios looked smaller than they were, allowing them to hold even less cash as a proportion of real total loans. Banks’ average cash holdings as a percentage of deposits shrank from 9.7 percent in May 1990 to 4.3 percent in May 2008, according to Ricardo Cabral, chair of the management and economics department at the University of Madeira in Portugal. Larger banks kept even smaller reserves. Under the new rules, banks’ reserve requirements were set, in part, by their scores from credit rating agencies. “In a sense, the regulators outsourced regulation to the ratings agencies. . . ”
    “This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. … All in all, I think we hit the jackpot.” So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act. He was, as it happened, wrong about solving the problems of the thrifts. On the contrary, the bill turned the modest-sized troubles of savings-and-loan institutions into an utter catastrophe.

  101. Lanier is Full Says:

    “And research now suggests we are in a cooling cycle due to a lack of Solar activity.”

    Yes, the same “Intelligent Design” researchers who say the world is only 6,000-7,000 years old. RFLMAO!

    “When we thawed out of the ice ages, in the 1300’s was it because of man made carbon emissions.”

    See above. The Ice Age ended in the 1300s? So sad.

    “Try to apply problem solving logic to things. . . ”

    If you add 2 + 2 and get 4, there’s no logic needed or used there. You don’t need logic to see that Repbulicans (occassionally with help from the Dems) deregulate industries that pay them bribes.

    ” . . . look at history.”

    Uh, I think that’s what I just did.

    “If your a communist or a new world order guy, that’s fine, but why not just say it, why rely on falsehoods.”

    Why is acknowledging that Republicans contributed to the current financial meltdown by taking bribes in exchange for favorable legislation “Communist”?

    I’d say you’re the one who might be more comfortable living in Russia or China, Comrade, following the Party line.

  102. Chicken Little Says:

    “I’m confused”

    Me too, is Lanier Is Full the troll and Walt the legitimate contributor?

    “….or is it vice versa?”

    BGAWK!

  103. Chicken Little Says:

    “I’m confused”

    Me too, is Lanier Is Full the troll and Walt the legitimate contributor?

    “….or is it vice versa?”

    Bcough! (damn swine flu!)

  104. Lanier is Full Says:

    By definition, an Internet troll is someone who comes to chat rooms or other boards for the sole purpose of irritating the users. The person has low self-esteem, few, if any friends, uses passive aggressive “humor” as his/her weapon, and generally has little or no interest in the topics being discussed.

    I think your posts demonstrate who/what this board’s troll is.

    Hope this board doesn’t die . . . I’d hate to see you lose your cyber “friends” and social life.

  105. Walt Says:

    OK I will use small words to see if you get it. I can only take the sheep so far. Comments in CAPS, sorry the meanlingless quotes are to verbose.

    Lanier is Full Says:

    October 24th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
    “First you say they were deregulated, then because of GLB they were regulated but it was to hard to do. Which was it? SO is Obama an agent of Wall street, because he got more money from the I-Banks than anyone in history.”

    Does lying work for you at the office or in bars?

    GLB was ONE instance of Republican-led deregulation over a 30-year history, which I said was abetted by the Dems. It was not my whole argument, but you are evidently counting on readers of this blog not reading earlier posts.

    Here’s some more for you to read . . .

    “Through this election year we have heard Senator McCain repeat time and time again,”I’m always for less regulation. But I am aware of the view [of Democrats] that there is a need for government oversight. … But I am a fundamentally a deregulator. I’d like to see a lot of the government regulations eliminated.”
    *******THE DMV and SOCIAL SECURITY AS SHINING EXAMPLES OF SUPERIOR GOVERNMENT REGULATION***
    “Then, in 2000, the Republican controlled Senate Banking Committee, controlled by Congress and Phil Gramm who is McCain’s current financial advisor, pushed through a deregulatory exemption on electronic commodities trading without a Senate hearing or debate.”

    ***SO IS IT PORK BELLIES, OIL, COPPER, GOLD THAT CAUSED THE COLLAPSE??? MORTGAGES ARE SECURITIZED, NOT COMMODITIZED TEHRE IS A DIFFERENCE, NOT ALL MORTGAGES ARE THE SAME. SECONDLY THESE WERE NOT SOLD ON A “MARKET” AS COMMODITIES WERE. THESE WERE BANK SELLING LARGE BUNDLES TO HEDGE FUNDS< BANKS AND MUTUAL FUNDS, SO WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE CURRENT ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCE****

    “A generation ago, banks, credit unions and S&Ls issued home mortgages that they retained on their books as an asset. The lenders had a stake in receiving full repayment of the loans from credit-worthy borrowers. But after deregulation, mortgages began to be sold to firms that cobbled the loans together to create mortgage-backed securities, or mortgage bonds.”

    *****TRUE IN PART, DIRECT BYPRODUCT OF COMMUNITY REINVESTMENT ACT WELL DONE, ASK AGAIN WHICH REGUALTION ARE WE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT, THERE IS NOT ONE *****

    “The “Enron Loophole” legislation was created and attached to U.S. Senate legislation in December 2000 by McCain campaign co-chair Senator Phil Gramm at the behest of Enron executives. In fact, internal Enron documents, which were released in 2002, revealed that the Houston-based company WROTE THE LEGISLATION FOR GRAHAM!!!!!! In 2006, the “Enron Loophole” allowed Amaranth Advisers hedge fund to shift its trades from the regulated New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX) to the unregulated Intercontinental Exchange (ICE) in Atlanta. That let Amaranth corner the natural gas market, betting that futures prices would rise. The hedge fund lost about $6 billion and imploded as natural gas prices fell to a two-year low in September 2006.The so-called “Enron Loophole” deregulation legislation allowed Enron to speculatively exploit and manipulate electricity commodity trading in California energy markets in the summer of 2001, spawning artificial electricity shortages, steep climbs in electricity prices and rolling brownouts across California. Republicans, including Texas Senator John Cornyn, have threatened to filibuster U.S. Senate business to block the efforts of Democratic Senators to close the “Enron Loophole.”

    ****THIS QUOTE SEEMS LIKE IT IS RIGHT OUT OF THE CA ENGERY CRISIS, ENRON WAS AN ACCOUNTING SCAM THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CHANGE MUCH LIKE CARBON EMISSIONS AND GLOBAL WARMING*****

    “Republicans controlled both the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate during the 2002-2006 period when all the now defaulting sub-prime home loans were written, packaged as “investment securities” and sold to investors.”

    ****TRUE, THE FACT THE BANKS HAD TO UNDERWRITE THE BAD LOANS HAPPENED WHEN?? ALSO BY GOVERNMENT LEGISLATION WRITTEN BY THE DEMS. CURING THE SYMPTOM NOT THE CAUSE IF THE LOANS WERE NEVER MADE WOULD WE BE BETTER OFF.

    “. . . changes in bank regulation in 1988 and 2001 lowered banks’ reserves. The reserves, kept in banks’ vaults and with their regional Fed banks, are their cash cushion; when borrowers don’t pay back loans, banks can cover the shortfall with their reserves. That meant they had to hold on to less money when they made loans, effectively freeing more money to lend, but giving them a much thinner cushion if loans soured. The regulations also allowed banks to keep some debts off their balance sheets _ the snapshot of a company’s financial condition that helps investors gauge its health. Off-balance sheet deals, which led to the downfall of Enron Corp., let companies take on debt or make loans without putting those loans on the books shareholders and regulators see. As a result, banks’ total loan portfolios looked smaller than they were, allowing them to hold even less cash as a proportion of real total loans. Banks’ average cash holdings as a percentage of deposits shrank from 9.7 percent in May 1990 to 4.3 percent in May 2008, according to Ricardo Cabral, chair of the management and economics department at the University of Madeira in Portugal. Larger banks kept even smaller reserves. Under the new rules, banks’ reserve requirements were set, in part, by their scores from credit rating agencies. “In a sense, the regulators outsourced regulation to the ratings agencies. . . ”
    “This bill is the most important legislation for financial institutions in the last 50 years. It provides a long-term solution for troubled thrift institutions. … All in all, I think we hit the jackpot.” So declared Ronald Reagan in 1982, as he signed the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act. He was, as it happened, wrong about solving the problems of the thrifts. On the contrary, the bill turned the modest-sized troubles of savings-and-loan institutions into an utter catastrophe.

    ***S&L’S WERE CONSUMED BY 18% INTEREST RATES CAUSED LARGELY BY INFLATION. IF YOU LOAN MONEY OUT AT 10% BUT MUST PAY 18% INTEREST TO KEEP CASH IN THE BANK(RESERVES) HOW WELL IS THAT GOING TO WORK FOR YOU, LOWERING RESERVES WAS AN ATTEMPT TO EASE THE PRESSURE ON “RENTING” MONEY FOR 18%. SO THE BAIL OUTS IN MANY CASES WERE FOR LIQUIDITY. ALL THIS WAS TRIGGERED BY THE GOVERNEMNT DEVALUATION OF THE CREDIT DERIVATIVES ON THE BALANCE SHEET. IS THERE AN ANSWER YOU HAVE FOR THAT?

  106. Walt Says:

    Lanier is full
    So in short your saying that the current issues are caused by the repeal and iniability to regulate the offending companies.
    This is caused by
    Deregulation of the electronic commodity markets.
    The reduction of reserve requirments of banking institutions.
    Price fixing in the California energy market in 2001.
    The securitization of mortgages.

    Do I have this right ?
    Looking forward to your response

  107. Walt Says:

    Sorry for the bad grammar.

    And research now suggests we are in a cooling cycle due to a lack of Solar activity. When we thawed out of the ice ages,*OR* in the 1300’s was it because of man made carbon emissions.

    Should have been 1200′s

    In the 1200’s in Europe something began to change. Most of the wealth of Europe came from the produce of land. Pollen evidence, as well as glacial evidence, prove that from 750 AD to 800 AD, and again two hundred years later from 1150 AD to 1200 AD, Europe’s weather suddenly starting warming, known as the “Medieval Warm”.

  108. Lanier is Full Says:

    God, what an idiot.

  109. Chicken Little Says:

    Time to Drain It

    BGAWK!

  110. Walt Says:

    Well I can’t compete with that well thought out retort.
    It is pretty clear you wish to continue to be misinformed, there is no way to change your mind through fact or reason. Lets play a hypothetical. If Al Gore, and his consensus of experts say tomorrow that they were wrong on climate change, would that change your view? Say your favorite celebrity, said they were wrong. How about the Boss or BONO. Who would beleive, who would move you to change you mind? Is this like a core religous belief that there is no one that can change your mind?

  111. Lanier is Full Says:

    “It is pretty clear you wish to continue to be misinformed, there is no way to change your mind through fact or reason.”

    A – There is no Global Warming.

    B – The Republicans led NOT ONE effort to de-regulate the financial industries, and therefore, did not contribute to the current economic crisis.

    God, what an idiot.

  112. Lanier is Full Says:

    “Who would beleive, who would move you to change you mind?”

    I will defer to and respect the 99 percent of the world’s scientists who agree, without reservation, that man-made global warming is a problem.

    You cite Al Gore, Bono and Bruce Springsteen as your sources.

    God, what an idiot.

  113. Walt Says:

    Lanier, so you cited republican deregulation. I agree with that, but I am failing to see the connection with the current crisis. Just expand on your point, show the cause effect. Your argument at the moment, to me at least, seems akin to:
    1. You drive a car
    2. My dog got hit by a car

    Therefore 1+2= you ran over my dog with your car.

    There is a substantial leap to get to that conclusion.

  114. Lanier is Full Says:

    OMG.

    Now I know how AM talk radio hosts get people to listen to them.

  115. Walt Says:

    Lanier, please show patience, walk me through your examples on quotes you supplied. Once we got to the root (or what seemed to me to be the root) of the quote you went the insult route. Could you not educate me or debate my points. I gave you a learning opportunity, will you not do the same in kind, given you are one of the “responsible” people?

    To me it seems like you are giving up, that there is no reason or logic to your argument. I am just trying to understand what facts shape your point of view.

  116. Lanier is Full Says:

    “Could you not educate me or debate my points.”

    I did, and you continued to respond with, “Jesus, Rush and Sean say it isn’t so.”

    Can’t argue with that.

    “I am just trying to understand what facts shape your point of view.”

    That’s the point, facts don’t work with you. Go put your head back in the sand (or between your speakers).

  117. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Walt, Lanier is full is npt worth the effort. She won’t figure it out until she wants to or she lives it. If you waiting for a sensible arguement based on your critique of her facts, forget about it. That is the point, the facts they present have nothing to do with the problem.

    Take this advice to heart, you can’t reason with crazy people

  118. Walt Says:

    I don’t think it is fair to classify them as “Crazy” but I just want to try to follow their logic. It is a learning opportunity for me, I am able to postulate my thesis, and I just can’t see how the get to a to b to c. Given the insults rather than explanation I am not sure there is that kind of thinking. Given the obsession with fox news and AM radio I am half wondering if this is not an Obama staffer.
    I am not sure how fox and radio got into it, but maybe I fit some stereotype cuz Lanier is half right. I listen to sports radio on the way home which is on the AM band. Don’t really watch much TV.

  119. Chicken Little Says:

    MEANWHILE…BACK AT LAKE LANIER…..

    BGAWK!

  120. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Did you guys see that Cash for clunckers cost the tax payers 24k per car.

  121. Chicken Little Says:

    RWL,

    At least we know the fiscally conservative talk radio listeners that post on this blog didn’t waste taxpayer by participating in Cash for Clunkers! Nor do they collect Social Security or make claims on Medicare! True patriots!

    BGAWK!,

  122. Lanier is Full Says:

    Republicans don’t believe in Socialism . . . until it applies to them:

    Mortgages, student loans, insurance, libraries, military, police, fire, FDA, FCC.

    And who says C4C “cost” the tax payers anything? GDP was up for the first time in 4 quarters, officially ending the recession, thanks (in part) to C4C.

    And, if you didn’t lose you $40K per year job, you actually made $16K on the deal. :-)

    As one well-informed talk-radio said to a senator at a town hall meeting, “You keep your damn government hands off my Medicare!”

    D’oh!

  123. Lanier is Full Says:

    talk radio “listener” said

  124. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Love that medicare and C4C are the shining jewels in the Libs crown. How’s that war on poverty going LBJ??
    Also love the idea that responsibility is apparently defined as redistribution of wealth. How about you take care of your own healthcare?? Seem like 200 to 275 Americans have figured it out, while the 100 -25 million have not.

    Oh darwinism where are you

  125. Lanier is Full Says:

    >Also love the idea that responsibility is apparently defined as redistribution of wealth.

    You use more, you pay more.

    Business owners use more trucks (more road repaving and cops), want a /evel playing field (government protection against competitors’ false advertsing, unsafe products, etc.), require more policing (do YOU trust IBM, Lehman Brothers, Honda, etc.), pollute more, etc.

    Even “good” businesses use more, therefore, they need to pay more. Yes, they create more, but still need to pay for their increased use.

    The rich shouldn’t be punished for working hard and making more, and the poor shouldn’t be rewarded IF they are lazy; however, Born-Agains have declared this a Christian nation (the TX legislature tried to pass a bill recognizing the U.S. as a Christian country), so we HAVE to take care of the poor. AND, Bush and the Republicans refused to stop the Dems from turning this into The Hispanic States of American, so we must now pay billions for illegals’ health CARE, education, prison stays, uninsured auto accidents, etc.

    >How about you take care of your own healthcare??

    At least we agree that this is NOT a Christian country.

    If you see someone lying on the street, dying, leave them there to die. Don’t provide any EMS or emergency rooms . . . especially for those whining children, abused women, mentally ill, elderly who’s pension funds got raided after they worked 40 years, etc.

    “I got mine!”

    Oh, by the way, when your father is diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, your wife gets breast cancer and your kids needs an operation, you’ll sell your house, cash out your 401K and live in your car before you ask for any help, right?

    >Seem like 200 to 275 Americans have figured it out, while the 100 -25 million have not.

    At least we both agree that Socialism is good.

    You pay your $100 per month for health INSURANCE, then when you need two weeks of chemo (aka health CARE), you can ask US to pay for your $200,000 worth of treatment.

    “It’s better to receive than give.”

    P.S. You’re welcome for your low-interest student loan, government-backed mortgagge, FDIC account, army, air force, navy and marines, police, fire department, USDA, FCC, FDA, etc.

  126. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Socialism has worked so well in the past, why not give it another whirl. Cuba is a shing example, yoiur rice cooker is in the mail, oh and by the way the hospitals, they don’t have screens in the windows, the bugs are good for the patients.

    So who pays for the other $199,000 for chemo. The government, well where did they get the money? From the rich the american tax payer. Insurance is voluntary, it is a decision that the individual should make, and live with the consequences.

    I live with in my means to prepare the rainy day, why should I pay for some one who lived it up.

    If you feel so strongly, why don’t you pay more in taxes

  127. Chicken Little Says:

    “why should I pay for some one who lived it up”

    Because it is easier for a mussel in Florida to get water from Lanier than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven!

    BGAWK!

  128. Lanier is Full Says:

    “I live with in my means to prepare the rainy day, why should I pay for some one who lived it up.”

    Didn’t we just go through this?

    >How about you take care of your own healthcare??

    At least we agree that this is NOT a Christian country.

    If you see someone lying on the street, dying, leave them there to die. Don’t provide any EMS or emergency rooms . . . especially for those whining children, abused women, mentally ill, elderly who’s pension funds got raided after they worked 40 years, etc.

    “I got mine!”

    Oh, by the way, when your father is diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, your wife gets breast cancer and your kids needs an operation, you’ll sell your house, cash out your 401K and live in your car before you ask for any help, right?

    And, by the way, since you’re eschewing Socialsim by living within your means, I assume you will never call on the police, fire department, military etc.

  129. Chicken Little Says:

    TIME TO DRAIN IT!

    BGAWK!

  130. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    In the event that tragedy strikes, be it cancer or knee surgery, we paid for the treatments. Yet some how I managed not to be in the street. I bought a high deductable plan, I limited my losses. I looked at my options an managed my risk.

    I may ask for help, but I would not have cable, a car, or eat meals out. It is a trade off, people get prioritize what they spend/save their money for.

    Still how do propose to pay for this? There in lies the problem.

  131. Lanier is Full Says:

    >In the event that tragedy strikes, be it cancer or knee surgery, we paid for the treatments.

    No, you didn’t, you paid a small, small fraction of the cost of the treatments via your premiums. Others who didn’t receive treatment paid for your treatment. It’s what you call Socialism.

    If you are telling me that you’ve had caner and/or knee surgery and paid for it out of your pocket, then I stand corrected.

    >Yet some how I managed not to be in the street.

    Because (most likely) you’re White, and were not shut out of jobs for which you were qualified, or sent to underfunded schools, allowing you to get a decent job.

    >I bought a high deductable plan, I limited my losses. I looked at my options an managed my risk.

    aka – I bought health INSURANCE, knowing, and having no qualms about the fact that, I would ask others to pay for my health CARE.

    >I may ask for help, but I would not have cable, a car, or eat meals out. It is a trade off, people get prioritize what they spend/save their money for.

    Do you REALLY think the vast majority of people who want healthcare reform really believe that the issue is, “How do we provide free healthcare for adults who blow their money on beer, cigarettes, flat-screen TVs, hundreds of CDs, etc. and don’t want to pay for health insurance”? Have Hannity and Limbaugh really rotted your brain that much?

    We’re talking about setting up a system so that honest, hard-working people who struggle to make their paycheck cover their familie’s basic needs can participate and afford to pay for health insurance. 700,000 people go bankrupt each year due to medical bills they can’t pay. Do you really think they’re all lazy and dishonest?

    >Still how do propose to pay for this? Therein lies the problem.

    So you admit there’s a problem? How about by NOT saying what you and Rush the Republicans are saying, “I got mine. Keep it all private.”

  132. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Ahhh now it comes out, so I am white, there for my life is all cookies and cream. Yes my success has all been due to my skin colors and my failures are due to , oh wait, I am white, I have no failures, silly me.

    I do think most people waste money, I also think it is their right to do so, they just have to live with the consequence until they wise up.

  133. Lanier is Full Says:

    >Ahhh now it comes out, so I am white, there for my life is all cookies and cream.

    Nice try. It’s one variable you are ignoring for others, when you self-righteously say “I earned everything I got.”

    >I do think most people waste money, I also think it is their right to do so, they just have to live with the consequence until they wise up.

    Again, we agree. All of those selfish children whining about their cancer, all of those lazy adults with Downs Syndrome or autism, all of those seniors who’s pensions were robbed by their CEOs, etc., etc. should be left on the street to die.

    Because you and me got ours, bro!

    I like the way you think!

  134. Chicken Little Says:

    I’ve got Jesus in my heart but YOU CAN’T HAVE HIM!

    BGAWK!

  135. Lanier is Full Says:

    How lonely are you to make posts like these?

    What is your connection to this site, and do you troll others, looking for attention?

    Do you ever contribute anything, or are you always the clown at work, family gatherings, etc.

    How sad for you to have no one pay any attention to you in real life, and that you have to come to Inernet sites looking for friends.

    I pity you for your loneliness.

    Why don’t you post another quip in response, to try and help you ease the pain of reality?

  136. Chicken Little Says:

    1072.50 and climbing…..TIME TO DRAIN IT!

    BGAWK!

  137. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Sorry for being so absent lately, but I wanted to bring a point for discussion.
    Lanier, you accuse me, accurately, of having a ” I got mine” attitude”
    Would the opposite of that be “give me yours”

  138. Lanier is Full Says:

    Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:
    November 18th, 2009 at 10:22 am

    >Sorry for being so absent lately, but I wanted to bring a point for discussion.

    Well, at least the lonely board troll has a “reason” to make another sad, lonely post.

    >Lanier, you accuse me, accurately, of having a ” I got mine” attitude”

    >Would the opposite of that be “give me yours”

    Why would you ask that? Where have I stated anything like that? That’s the problem with Conservatives – it’s all talking points, slogans, attacks, etc. No critical thinking.

    YOU agree that, based on YOUR statements, I correctly deduce that you are primarily, if not only, concerned with taking care of yourself, despite the Right’s incessant braying about making the U.S. a Christian country (and saying that it already is).

    I, on the other hand, am interested in everyone having a fair shot, for a number of reasons, including (but not limited to) the fact that when people lose their jobs, have huge medical bills, get underwater on their homes, etc., I’m going to end up paying for it, as well. When the economy tanks, my company gets hurt and I may lose my job. At the very least, I’ll pay higher taxes to help with bailouts, or to make up for those millions of unemployed who are now longer paying taxes.

    Never have I said that people who are lazy, cheaters, spendthrifts, etc. deserve a full and free bailout from you and me.

    However, I don’t have a problem with bridge solutions (e.g., letting people keep their homes, but lowering their interest rates, with possible longer-term mortgages, etc. and higher taxes on any profits from an eventual sale of the home), when hard-working, dumb or irresponsible people are in trouble. If we don’t help them, we have the mess we’re in now, and we all suffer. We can help them a little now (and help ourselves) or all pay a lot, later.

    I’d rather pay $1,000 annually in higher taxes to help (only) struggling Americans, if it means I can keep my job and my full salary. Do the math!

    I also don’t have a problem with the government getting in the health insurance game . . . why do you care whether I buy my health insurance from Aetna or Blue Cross or some new government entity? Out of one side of their mouths, Republicans say we should have a free-market system and let everyone compete. . . let the best man win. Out the other, they say the government can’t get in, because by offering attractive health insurance, they’ll put the sleazy for-profits out of business.

    Make up your mind.

    And what do we do about children, the mentality ill, and those who have been swindled out of pensions after playing the game by YOUR rules for 40 years (i.e., “work hard and save”)?

    You have never answered the question, “Are the majority of people suffering from the effects of the current economy, and are the majority of American struggling to afford healthcare, irresponsible, lazy or dishonest?”

    If so, then I see your point about letting them suffer.

    But if you answer no, then you need to re-think the whole Christian Country thing if your attitude is still, “Too bad. I got mine.”

    And, you need to do the math.

    Why cut your nose off to spite your face?

    Pretty soon, you won’t have “yours.”

  139. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    An extra $1000 dollars from you in taxes and you get full employment. I don’t get that, the math seems fuzzy there.

    In terms of the government involved as a “competitor” in insurance there are a couple things that you clearly fail to consider.
    1. The government makes the rules, they can increase taxes on the private sector companies, hence raising the price, introduce now regulation or standards etc. Where is the federal government taxed? Do they pay income tax, windfall profit tax?
    Imagine a running a race where your competitor can add obstacles, and move the finish line at will, while you have no such ability. Would that be competition?

    2. I think we can agree that we spend some amount of money on health care. To keep it simple lets say it is 1$. Of that dollar, today how much of that is spent on the actual act of administering service (not to be confused with Adminstating)? If we have 55 new beuracracies do you think the percentage of that dollar that is spent on administering service will go up or down. I am sure you are certain you think it will go up, but what program has the government been involved in that has had that happen? There are none, look at social security, look at cash for clunkers, look at the “jobs saved”. Tons of waste in government.

    Lastly, again, according to you it appears that affordable health care is the issue. I would argue that it already exists, but lets say your right. What lowers price?

    A combination of increase of supply or reduction of demand. How does the government option Increase supply or lower demand, I would guess the net result would be less supply (less doctors, less hospitals, because there is no money in it any more….see price controsl and shortages) and more demand, It is “free” there is no direct cost that people see with it, though increased taxes is what the net effect would be, but only wealthy whites pay taxes so who cares….until their borke, then who picks up the tab?

    As for christian country, I am not sure what your point is, I think christianity has nothing to do with it. Last I checked there was no Christion clause in the bill.

    Are people lazy how are hurting, some of them, some are unlucky, but there are still palce to get jobs, further, I think they are entitled to spend their money on what they want. If they have to choose between food and health care, thats their choice. If they have to choose between cable and health care, again thats their choice.

    A plan with a 10 k deductable, and 0% for coinsurance in ga for a family of 4 that all smoke (even the kids) is 250 bucks a month…. thats not affordable??

  140. Chicken Little Says:

    10k deductible?

    TIME TO DRAIN IT!

    BGAWK!

  141. Lanier is Full Says:

    #

    An extra $1000 dollars from you in taxes and you get full employment. I don’t get that, the math seems fuzzy there.

    Geeze, can’t you think? If I DON’T agree to the government providing some bailouts with my tax dollars, the economy gets worse and I eventually lose my job. Duh.

    In terms of the government involved as a “competitor” in insurance there are a couple things that you clearly fail to consider.

    1. The government makes the rules, they can increase taxes on the private sector companies, hence raising the price, introduce now regulation or standards etc. Where is the federal government taxed? Do they pay income tax, windfall profit tax?
    Imagine a running a race where your competitor can add obstacles, and move the finish line at will, while you have no such ability. Would that be competition?

    Do you really think that’s whay anyone is proposing? Do you really think anyone would get that passed? Why the disengenous respsonse?

    2. I think we can agree that we spend some amount of money on health care. To keep it simple lets say it is 1$. Of that dollar, today how much of that is spent on the actual act of administering service (not to be confused with Adminstating)? If we have 55 new beuracracies do you think the percentage of that dollar that is spent on administering service will go up or down. I am sure you are certain you think it will go up, but what program has the government been involved in that has had that happen? There are none, look at social security, look at cash for clunkers, look at the “jobs saved”. Tons of waste in government.

    Tons of fraud, not just waste.

    I assume you think Medicare and Medicaid don’t work?

    Cash for Clunkers worked. It gave a temporary (and much needed) boost to the economy and got cleaner cars on the road.

    The military is full of waste and fraud, but you want to keep expanding it.

    Let’s look at some of your shining examples of private sector businesses: Enron, WorldComm, Lehman, Goldman, Citi, GM, Chrysler, Arena Football, etc.

    So, please don’t say the private sector works perfectly and the government is all waste and fraud.

    Lastly, again, according to you it appears that affordable health care is the issue. I would argue that it already exists, but lets say your right. What lowers price?

    Doesn’t matter if we lower the price, in terms of making it affordable. If you lower the price of a chemo treatment from $200,000 to $100,000m 99 percent of Americans, including you, still can’t afford it.

    A combination of increase of supply or reduction of demand. How does the government option Increase supply or lower demand, I would guess the net result would be less supply (less doctors, less hospitals, because there is no money in it any more….see price controsl and shortages) and more demand, It is “free” there is no direct cost that people see with it, though increased taxes is what the net effect would be, but only wealthy whites pay taxes so who cares….until their borke, then who picks up the tab?

    The government option would only apply to 5-10 percent of the poorest who can’t get private health insurance. And, the government wouldn’t be motivated to deny claims or coverage as much as private insurers, who are profit-motivated.

    As for christian country, I am not sure what your point is, I think christianity has nothing to do with it. Last I checked there was no Christion clause in the bill.

    The Right is fighting healthcare reform. They say we live in a country builton on and operating with a Christian-Judeo ethic, which means we MUST provide health care for the poor, but yet, they don’t want the poor paying for health insurance. Doesn’t make sense to me.

    Are people lazy how are hurting, some of them, some are unlucky, but there are still palce to get jobs,

    I won’t even stoop to respond to this.

    further, I think they are entitled to spend their money on what they want. If they have to choose between food and health care, thats their choice. If they have to choose between cable and health care, again thats their choice.

    What does this have to do with our argument? The can’t afford it. It’s not a choice. For even hard working people.

    A plan with a 10 k deductable, and 0% for coinsurance in ga for a family of 4 that all smoke (even the kids) is 250 bucks a month…. thats not affordable??

    Not to a single mother with a deceased husband and three kids, working for $8 hour in one of your dream jobs that are available.

    Nice morals you have.

  142. Right wing Looneeey!!!!!! Says:

    Putting your lack of reason aside lets take the woman making $8 and hour and the 3 kids.
    It is moral to take from someone else and give to here, is that what your saying?
    Ok who is it moral to take from? The rich? Is that what I am to understand?
    Am I understanding this right? This is your claim?

  143. Lanier is Full Says:

    142.

    It is moral to take from someone else and give to here, is that what your saying?
    Ok who is it moral to take from? The rich? Is that what I am to understand?
    Am I understanding this right? This is your claim?

    So, you think taxes are immoral?

    Every time you drive on a paved road, are you “taking” from someone? Every time you call the police, are you “taking” from someone? When the Department of Agriculture inspects a meat packing plant to make sure they are not selling you food processed in an unhealthy way, are you “taking” from someone? If the fire department comes to your house, are you “taking” from someone? If you go into the hospital and get $200,000 worth of chemo treatment after paying $250 per month in health insurance premiums for three years, are you “taking” from someone?

    You think we should have not taxes? No community? No society? No common sharing? Just anarchy – everyone for himself?

    Is that your thinking?

    When you stop “taking” from people on a daily basis, maybe we can resume this brilliant argument you’re trying to put forth.

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