Links: AP story about the drought, water meeting postponed, water getting harder to purify
A handful of useful links for today:
- The AP has a story about what kind of steps might need to be taken if we run out of water. It discusses some of the water being stockpiled for the city, what Macon did when they ran out of water 13 years ago, and what cities like Durham (NC) and Athens are faced with right now.
- 11Alive says that the meeting schedule for next Monday between the Georgia, Florida and Alabama governors has been postponed by one week. This meeting should help to set-up a long term agreement of some sort between the states.
- The AJC discusses some of the issues that are popping up as the lake levels drop. Among the problems:
- The lowest intake on Lake Allatoona may need some work, since it hasn’t been used since the mid-1960′s. If the intake doesn’t work, they plan to spend $600,000 (plus $250,000/month) to run a mile-long pipe into deeper water.
- Cumming continues to dredge the lake in an effort to access deeper water (as we mentioned a few weeks ago). This dredging is stirring up so much sediment that the water plant has been shut down onsome days.
- Some water in Cobb County had a greenish hue this summer from an excess of manganese. The article didn’t say it, but it sounds like we might see more of that as the lakes get lower.
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December 4th, 2007 at 10:56 pm
Yep as the dregs of the reservoir lakes are used, then expect the water to your house to look cloudy, more greasy, and have a bad smell too. Start drinking bottled water and use that to brush your teeth as well. Going to get a lot worse by next summer, so start preparing now.
December 4th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
If Atlanta’s intakes are south of Buford Dam, then how does this quote from the AJC article make sense?:
“On Oct. 20 Gov. Sonny Perdue sent a letter asking President Bush to declare a federal disaster in 85 Georgia counties as a result of the drought. Perdue warned Bush of dire consequences if water levels in Lanier, Atlanta’s main reservoir, drop below the level where water intake pipes are located. “It is unimaginable what measures would be necessary to provide minimal water requirements for over four million Georgians who depend on this resource for water,” Perdue wrote.”
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/12/04/worstcase_1205.html
We’ve been discussing on here the potential for deadpool water to flow freely out of Lanier, and into Atlanta’s intakes downstream from Buford. I can’t seem to jive the above quote with the speculations we’ve been making…
December 5th, 2007 at 12:02 am
ST > Atlanta’s intake pipe is supposed to be located below Buford Dam. If zero water flowed out of the dam, then there would be none for Atlanta. The plan seems to be that once dead pool level in lake is reached, then the power channel gates would be left open so flow above Lanier would still flow out the dam gates.
December 5th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Around next June/July in Atlanta should get interesting. May not be possible for the city to get the 500+ million gallons of water it needs daily. I would not be surprised if less than half was only available. A big city having to reduce water usage by 50% to 75% is serious.
December 5th, 2007 at 8:08 am
I thought that we’d seen photos of the dam during filling and gotten confirmation that they have gates all the way down to the bottom – there was a PDF on it someone provided. Didn’t we determine that assuming those gates work they could continue to release water well below the deadpool and that the deadpool was more a concern for power generation than anything else?
December 5th, 2007 at 9:44 am
rk > that’s what I’m referring to. The quote I posted seems to contradict this option, as do most articles/statements that link reaching deadpool to Atlanta “running dry.” I wonder how we can get confirmation one way or the other?
-st
December 5th, 2007 at 11:01 am
I just spoke with spokesperson michael latina? at the buford office of the army corp of engineers. He said that water always comes from the release at an elevation of 919 above sea level at the bottom of the lake. He said the 1035 figure is when no power can be generated because there is not enough head pressure but water can flow until the lake is totally dry.
I am still slightly confused what all the talk about the dead pool is because it seems running out of water is the primary concern, not generating power. Also confused about where the the water treatment takes place and why there is talk about using barges and pumps if the lake can drain totally dry.
I called back but got his voicemail…i will try again.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I got the barges and pumps from an AJC story that I wrote about here:
http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071019/corps-of-engineers-insist-that-lanier-wont-be-dry-in-80-days/
Unfortunately, the AJC removes stories from their site after a few weeks so I can’t see the original context to know who said that quote. I’m thinking it was the Corps, but I’m not sure.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Thank you for taking the time to make that call John -
If the water is coming from the 919 foot elevation, all the time, then the deadpool is in fact, just the water below the point that the dam can produce electricity.
We shouldn’t need barges and pumps in that case.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:25 am
John — Once you get this sorted out, I’d love it if you would write up a post for the site. If barges and pumps aren’t needed to access the deadpool, that changes things quite a bit.
It’s certainly something that should be summarized and posted on the site for all to see. Please keep us posted.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Pulling the water out of the dead pool by barges and pumps refers to city of Cumming that has intake pipe located in Lake Lanier itself. If no water is released from the power channel, then no electricity from the dam is produced. Maybe you all will notice that power production outweighs us little people getting water.
When I drove down to the below dam park, a few weeks ago, water was rushing out the power channel and just a very small flow coming out at the base of the dam located at the old river channel that dam sits upon.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:33 am
Since ACE does admit that water flows out tubes at the dam base, then so-called dead pool terminology needs clarification. Plus dead pool water is not stagnant either since being flushed out all the time. Main point now is when lake is empty and only the watershed water flowing across the lake bottom and out the tubes > hence original river is reborn and the only water available will be whatever comes down from Georgia mountains.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Okay, after getting michael’s voicemail twice, i spoke with the man who answered the phone at the corp’s buford office (770-945-9531)
He said the deadpool only refers to the water that will not generate power, that water always comes from 919 ASL, the level of the river at the dam.
He also said:
The media does not know what they are talking about.
There is no need for barges and pumps because it flows from the bottom of the lake.
There is no water treatment at the dam, it is done at the local plants downstream.
The water we drink everyday comes from the bottom of the lake.
I asked if I could get his first name but he said “No!” and asked who I was with. I explained I am a regular poster at atlantawatershortage.com and there were several people with questions and looking for accurate answers. (I imagine they have been getting lots of nasty calls from unemployed landscapers etc so I understand his reluctance)
Mickey i don’t know what you want me to write up but feel free to paste all my info or let me know.
December 5th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
John > nice chat with the ACE official? Go take a drive to the below dam park, at Lanier, and notice the lions share of water flows out down the power channel. The small flow from under the dam, from tubes, merges with the big flow from the power channel.
If ACE wants the newspapers to report accurate information, then start holding press conferences to explain operations of the dam to everybody.
December 5th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I agree. The media is making it sound like the faucets will run dry at 1035 above sea level, and that any water below that will be nasty and will have to be pumped out with many barges and pumps. Example, the graphic diagram at 11alive.com droughtwatch clearly shows the bottom of the lake about 100 feet below the river level which is totally incorrect according to the ACE.
The ACE and the media need to provide basic and accurate information. I had to do lots of searching to find the actual level of the lowest water release and could not find it. That’s why I called them.
Mickey, maybe you could summarize my statements, then email them to michael latina ? and get him to confirm or deny…that would have more credibility than paraphrasing me.
December 5th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
I tried calling him and had to leave a voicemail. We’ll see if he calls back.
Also, I think his last name is Lapina (at least, that’s how it sounded to me). I’ll let you know if I hear anything back from him.
December 5th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
yes it is lapina, i searched his name and found his email on some press releases. He is the chief ranger and appears to the the ACE spokesperson.
michael.b.lapina@us.army.mil
December 5th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
I would like to know a final answer about this. I read somewhere that dead pool is what existed before the dam was built. If that is the case, outflow will have to equalize with inflow. If not, then there is at least a little more comfort zone.
December 5th, 2007 at 8:57 pm
Wikipedia says -
The normal maximum level of a reservoir lake is called full pool, while the minimum level it can function at is dead pool. The water below this point is also called the dead pool, while the water in between is called the conservation pool. Full pool may have different levels in summer and winter, or based on the local wet and dry seasons.
Once a reservoir reaches dead pool, it is below the level at which the dam can release it downstream. At this point, the streambed beyond the dam goes nearly or completely dry, and electricity production stops as well. This is also often the point at which intakes for municipal water systems begin to suck air in, and must be extended into deeper water, where stagnant water quality is much poorer. This can be done either permanently with longer pipes, or temporarily with large hoses floated on small barges, such as until a severe drought or dam repairs are over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir
The ACE may define dead pool differently for Lake Lanier.
December 5th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
Why is there so much variance and misinformation going around? How is it that the ACE’s estimates to deadpool seem to jump so wildly, from 375 to 79 days within two weeks? Perhaps it is the media that is incorrectly conveying what this means, but it seems naive to imagine that the government or Corps can’t work with the press to clear all this up.
Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, it seems like a wise political move for Perdue/Franklin to explain *why* they aren’t worried about Atlanta’s supply. If hitting deadpool is NOT linked to Atlanta running dry, as the ACE is claiming, why isn’t there a push to get this information out to the public? Instead, we are being fed conflicting or irreconcilable accounts of the situation at every turn. This is baffling, and only adds to the sense that things aren’t under control…
-st
December 6th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Take, for example, this story from AJC on Oct 19th:
“Corps of Engineers: Lanier won’t be dry in 80 days”
Lake Lanier is not going to be dry in 81 days, as some have predicted, and should have water to meet the region’s critical needs for at least a few months, an official with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Friday morning.
Jonathan Davis, the Corps’ operations project manager at Lake Lanier, told members of the Alpharetta Rotary Club there’s likely at least a 100-day supply of water that’s easily accessible.
If drought conditions persist beyond that time, there’s still more than 100 feet of water that can be tapped, Davis said.
If levels get that low, the water will be tougher to retrieve and will require the use of a barge, pump and longer water lines, he said.
But the lake “can still supply at least water for us to live on for at least several months,” Davis said”
—
So, we’re supposedly getting this information through a Corps official, and it simply doesn’t jive with what John is being told in his phone calls. What is this talk of “easily accessible” water, if it flows freely from the bottom of the lake? Why the discussion of “tougher to retrieve” water, barges and pumps? And we’re supposed to place the blame for the confusion on the media alone…
-st
December 6th, 2007 at 8:19 am
It may be that the water released from the bottom of the dam has a maximum flow that is significantly less…?
Just when we think we have an answer, something else confusing comes along. *sigh*
December 6th, 2007 at 9:37 am
rkolter > the flow tubes located at bottom of the dam most likely are not large enough to release water at a high rate or perhaps the valves/gates do not function completely now. Allatoona’s dam has faulty lower gates that need repair, thus maybe Lanier’s as well.
December 6th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
The water empties from the lake into the river which has an elevation of 919 ASL according to the corps.
The lowest point in the lake is on the other side of the dam on the old river bed at 911 ASL.
Based on this, water comes from the very bottom of the lake. I have seen the pictures of the construction of the lake and the release valves are at the very bottom. There is an 8 minute video on the corps lanier website that shows the construction of the dam and you can see the two 26 foot pipes that feed the generator and a smaller sulice water release. I will try to find the pictures of the dam construction but they are the same ones as in the video.
I agree with the wikipedia article but i don’t think it applies in this case or has been misused by the media.
Maybe the confusion about the barges is that cumming, ganiesville and gwinnett get their water directly from the lake BEFORE the dam, while atlanta, dekalb and others get their water from the river after the dam.
The lowest point is 911 ASL, water is released at 919 ASL so there is only 8 feet of water that would have to be pumped if at all.
December 6th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
Okay, maybe we can clear this up. I emailed the Atlanta Journal and sent a carbon copy to the spokesperson for the army corps.
Dear Atlanta Journal,
I am a regular reader of atlantawatershortage.com and many people agree that there appears to be a great deal of confusing and misleading information about the lake lanier water levels.
The Army Corps of Engineers imply the following statements:
Water is always released from the dam at an elevation of 919 feet above sea level (ASL) which is also the level of the river as it leaves the dam. The deepest point of the lake is the old river bed at the base of the dam which has an elevation of 911 ASL. Technically, the lake can be drained totally dry without the use of any pumps or barges. Also, the water that atlanta drinks everyday comes from the bottom of the lake.
The Atlanta Journal imply the following statements:
When the lake level reaches 1035 ASL the faucets will run dry unless they use barges and pumps, and that the 100 feet of water below 1035 level will be very dirty and require special treatment.
I am not asking you and the ACE to agree on opinions on when the water will run out, but I am asking you and the ACE to agree on known public facts such as:
“What is the deepest part of the lake”
“Where are the deepest water release valves located”
“At what elevation is water always released from”
“How many feet of water is there between the deepest lake level and the deepest water release valves”
“Is your definiton of dead pool water “water that can’t be used for power generation” or “water that can not be released from the dam without special pumps and barges”
AJC, please clear up the myths and provide your readers with basic known facts and then we can make our own assumptions about the water situation. Your information is very confusing compared to the information I have gotten from the Army Corps.
Thank You
CC: Michael Lapina, Army Corps of Engineers
December 6th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
Thank you for the effort John!
And Jay – I hope you’re wrong; I fear you’re not. This might be source of the confusion entirely. It may be a case where they can get the water out, but maybe not in as regulated a way, or not as well, or…
aw hell, I don’t know. I would really like to know though. Here’s hoping they respond.
December 6th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Ok, Mr. Lapina called back today and we spoke for a while. Most of what has been said in this thread is correct. Here’s just a long list of facts I learned/verified:
- Water is currently being released from the bottom of the lake.
- There are three turbines that produce power from the dam.
- The two largest turbines will no longer operate below 1035 feet because of inadequate head pressure.
- The two largest turbines are already operating at a reduced capacity because of reduced head pressure.
- The smaller turbine will operate down to about 1020 feet.
- The smaller turbine runs 24/7 with the “minimal flow” or whatever it’s called.
- The larger turbines only run during the major daily releases.
- During the summer, the releases were timed during the hottest parts of the day so that the turbines could help handle the increased energy needs caused by everyone running their A/C full blast.
- Water can be released freely through the dam down to 919 feet.
- No pumps or barges will be needed for anything at Buford Dam. Those might be needed for other cities (like Cumming) that pull water directly from the lake.
- Nothing dam-wise changes at 1035 feet. That’s simply the point where the head pressure gets too low to power the turbines.
I think that’s about it. I need to get this all together and post about it, because it certainly seems to change things…
December 6th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Nice to know. Maybe the media will explain this to people rather than have everyone think the faucets run dry at 1035 and they will be pumping 100 feet of dirty water.
Yes I know all about the summer water releases…many times we would be on the rocks or islands at jones bridge river park and the water would rise so fast your stuff would float away if you were not sitting right by it. Many times people got stranded on the island and had to be rescued by boat.
December 7th, 2007 at 12:51 am
mickey > so the dead pool terminology is really the point where electicity is no longer produced at the dam. ACE would prefer whatever water coming down from Georgia mountains at that time to flow out the power channel gates. That is when the fight begins for water for Atlanta versus power needs.
December 7th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Dear Stacy Shelton/AJC,
Your 12/07/07 article regarding Lake Lanier contains some misleading information.
“Complicating even the simple countdown clock is whether to predict days of readily available water left, or days of total water available including that at the bottom of the lake, which would be harder to access and probably more expensive to treat.”
Your statement is true for people who get their water from the lake above the dam such as Gwinnett, Cumming, and Gainesville but not for the majority of your readers who get their water from the river. You need to make this distinction in your coverage.
FACT: Water for Atlanta and Dekalb that comes from the river always comes from the very bottom of the lake at the only release valves at 919 above sea level. Technically, the lake can run totally dry without the use of any “barges and pumps.” The water that Atlanta people drink everyday comes from the very bottom of the lake at 919 ASL. Furthermore, the term “dead pool” only refers to water below 1035 that will not generate power because there is not enough pressure. Several people have verified this with two different people at the Corps Buford office.
Your paper has everyone mislead by continously implying that “water will stop flowing when the level hits 1035 ASL and that there will be 100 feet of dirty water that will have to be pumped out by barges and then specially treated.”
I strongly urge you to put a permanent link on your drought coverage that explains the above information and lists some basic well-known public facts about lake elevations and locations of water release valves. I would even run a front page story just to clear up all the confusion you guys have created.
I write you only because many people including myself have been totally confused by your coverage and I assume there are a million people who think the faucets will run dry when the water level hits 1035…this is far from the truth.
Thank You
PS: I wrote the following email to your public editor yesterday:
Dear Atlanta Journal,
I am a regular reader of atlantawatershortage.com and many people agree that there appears to be a great deal of confusing and misleading information about the lake lanier water levels.
The Army Corps of Engineers imply the following statements:
Water is always released from the dam at an elevation of 919 feet above sea level (ASL) which is also the level of the river as it leaves the dam. The deepest point of the lake is the old river bed at the base of the dam which has an elevation of 911 ASL. Technically, the lake can be drained totally dry without the use of any pumps or barges. Also, the water that atlanta drinks everyday comes from the bottom of the lake.
The Atlanta Journal imply the following statements:
When the lake level reaches 1035 ASL the faucets will run dry unless they use barges and pumps, and that the 100 feet of water below 1035 level will be very dirty and require special treatment.
I am not asking you and the ACE to agree on opinions on when the water will run out, but I am asking you and the ACE to agree on known public facts such as:
“What is the deepest part of the lake”
“Where are the deepest water release valves located”
“At what elevation is water always released from”
“How many feet of water is there between the deepest lake level and the deepest water release valves”
“Is your definiton of dead pool water “water that can’t be used for power generation” or “water that can not be released from the dam without special pumps and barges”
AJC, please clear up the myths and provide your readers with basic known facts and then we can make our own assumptions about the water situation. Your information is very confusing compared to the information I have gotten from the Army Corps.
Thank You
CC: Michael Lapina, Army Corps of Engineers
December 7th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Am I in the twilight zone? Please read my email exchanges with the AJC and tell me what you think. You will have to start reading at the bottom as their replies are pasted to the top.
—————————————-
Stacy, I don’t know how to make my previous email any clearer.
Many people including myself have been confused because there has been a great emphasis on the “magic” 1035 level, and we have been lead to believe that at the 1035 level, the water will stop flowing from the dam. There has been constant talk of a “dead pool” which implies water will not flow out of the dam. It also has been mentioned several times about using barges and pumps to get the water out and of extra water treatment.
I said in my earlier email that those facts IMPLY that “water will stop flowing when the level hits 1035 ASL and that there will be 100 feet of dirty water that will have to be pumped out by barges and then specially treated.”
Due to this confusion, I spoke with two people from the Corps, and when reported my findings back to the message board at atlantawatershortage.com, several regular readers said “ok, now i understand…the water will not run out at 1035 and they will not need pumps to release water from the dam…the media makes it sound like water will run dry at 1035 ASL”
In fact, this quote in today’s story implies that: “Complicating even the simple countdown clock is whether to predict days of readily available water left, or days of total water available including that at the bottom of the lake, which would be harder to access and probably more expensive to treat.”
For people drawing water FROM THE RIVER, all water is and will always be readily available and would not be harder to access. For people drawing water FROM THE LAKE, yes they would need barges and pumps etc..
You are using data that applies only to Cumming, Gainesville, and Gwinnett and applying it
to the majority of your millions of readers in the affected area: Fulton, Dekalb, Atlanta etc..
The AJC needs to clearly explain to readers:
“The deepest point of the lake is 911 above sea level. Water that comes FROM THE RIVER always comes from the valves at the very bottom of the lake at 919 above sea level. Technically, the lake can run totally dry without the use of any barges and pumps. The 1035 above sea level refers only to the point where the power generators will not work anymore due to less pressure. HOWEVER, water systems that get their water directly FROM THE LAKE such as Cumming, Gainesville and Gwinnett have been using pumps to access the water, and may have to use barges and pumps to access the deepest levels of water.
Thank You
CC: Senior Editing Manager – James Mallory
—————————————————————-
Stacy Shelton wrote:
Thank you for writing.
It is our intent to clear up any confusing and misleading information, which is why we felt it important to explain the “days left” computations. We also strive to accurately simplify what can be complicated information. The reason we say that the water would be harder to access is not only because intake pipes in the lake have to be moved (as Cumming is currently doing) as the water level drops, but also because there will be an accompanying drop in pressure affecting how much water can be pushed through the dam. I have talked at length with corps and state officials about this to ensure we get it right.
Can you let me know where you read this: “water will stop flowing when the level hits 1035 ASL and that there will be 100 feet of dirty water that will have to be pumped out by barges and then specially treated”?
The AJC does not publish atlantawatershortage.com. I do not know who is responsible for that Web site.
Again, thank you for writing and please let us know how we are doing in the future.
STACY SHELTON
Staff Writer/Environment
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
72 Marietta Street, 8th Floor
Atlanta, GA 30303
404-526-5363 (office)
404-849-0299 (cell)
———————————————————————
j d
12/07/07 09:40 AM To sshelton@ajc.com
cc insideajc@ajc.com
Subject More misleading drought info. from AJC
Dear Stacy Shelton/AJC,
Your 12/07/07 article regarding Lake Lanier contains some misleading information.
“Complicating even the simple countdown clock is whether to predict days of readily available water left, or days of total water available including that at the bottom of the lake, which would be harder to access and probably more expensive to treat.”
Your statement is true for people who get their water from the lake above the dam such as Gwinnett, Cumming, and Gainesville but not for the majority of your readers who get their water from the river. You need to make this distinction in your coverage.
FACT: Water for Atlanta and Dekalb that comes from the river always comes from the very bottom of the lake at the only release valves at 919 above sea level. Technically, the lake can run totally dry without the use of any “barges and pumps.” The water that Atlanta people drink everyday comes from the very bottom of the lake at 919 ASL. Furthermore, the term “dead pool” only refers to water below 1035 that will not generate power because there is not enough pressure. Several people have verified this with two different people at the Corps Buford office.
Your paper has everyone mislead by continously implying that “water will stop flowing when the level hits 1035 ASL and that there will be 100 feet of dirty water that will have to be pumped out by barges and then specially treated.”
I strongly urge you to put a permanent link on your drought coverage that explains the above information and lists some basic well-known public facts about lake elevations and locations of water release valves. I would even run a front page story just to clear up all the confusion you guys have created.
I write you only because many people including myself have been totally confused by your coverage and I assume there are a million people who think the faucets will run dry when the water level hits 1035…this is far from the truth.
Thank You
PS: I wrote the following email to your public editor yesterday:
Dear Atlanta Journal,
I am a regular reader of atlantawatershortage.com and many people agree that there appears to be a great deal of confusing and misleading information about the lake lanier water levels.
The Army Corps of Engineers imply the following statements:
Water is always released from the dam at an elevation of 919 feet above sea level (ASL) which is also the level of the river as it leaves the dam. The deepest point of the lake is the old river bed at the base of the dam which has an elevation of 911 ASL. Technically, the lake can be drained totally dry without the use of any pumps or barges. Also, the water that atlanta drinks everyday comes from the bottom of the lake.
The Atlanta Journal imply the following statements:
When the lake level reaches 1035 ASL the faucets will run dry unless they use barges and pumps, and that the 100 feet of water below 1035 level will be very dirty and require special treatment.
I am not asking you and the ACE to agree on opinions on when the water will run out, but I am asking you and the ACE to agree on known public facts such as:
“What is the deepest part of the lake”
“Where are the deepest water release valves located”
“At what elevation is water always released from”
“How many feet of water is there between the deepest lake level and the deepest water release valves”
“Is your definiton of dead pool water “water that can’t be used for power generation” or “water that can not be released from the dam without special pumps and barges”
AJC, please clear up the myths and provide your readers with basic known facts and then we can make our own assumptions about the water situation. Your information is very confusing compared to the information I have gotten from the Army Corps.
Thank You
CC: Michael Lapina, Army Corps of Engineers
December 7th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
John > I don’t know how much of the confusion comes from the AJC and how much comes from elsewhere – NYT, AP, Fox, 11 Alive, etc. For several months, I’ve been seeing articles in numerous places about the magic number 1035. They said that when the dead pool was reached at 1035 ft., the only water left in the lake would be dirty, bacteria-laden water that would require special treatment and would be hard to access. I understood this to mean that once the dead pool was reached, no more water would run out of the dam to Atlanta, Fulton County, DeKalb County, or Florida unless somebody pumped it out over the dam. Maybe that’s not what they meant, but that’s the way I understood it.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Well, I spoke with someone from the army corps and he told me the media are idiots.
I agree with him.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
The atlanta journal is a bunch of monkeys banging on a typewriter anyway.
December 8th, 2007 at 6:32 am
Thank you for getting the information from Mr. Lapina. And thanks to Mickey for providing this site.
December 9th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
[...] us), so here is our attempt to set it straight. (For the full story, you can read the comments from this post, but I’ll give you a [...]
December 10th, 2007 at 11:56 am
note to ajc’s stacy:
Stacy,
As an AJC reporter, you may do well to review the atlantawatershortage blog as it not misleading in the least compared to statements forthcoming from the AJC. The AJC drought articles certainly omit key information, which lead these intelligent bloggers to try to reduce the incessant misreporting to a sensible core. As one who reads the mainstream paper, I am well aware that well intended efforts, such as yours do often promote
a reader’s misleading and erroneous outlooks (pumping dirty water 100 ft, etc). Now that I know what’s going on in the media, including yours, I am glad to have a few decent sincere bloggers to help me reason the mess.
At this point the drought reporting in the media is a political editor’s nightmarish boondoggle…and you know it.
Steve
December 23rd, 2007 at 9:32 pm
A couple of months ago I got interested in the Atlanta water imbroglio and began researching it.
After much searching, mostly over the Internet, I discovered various bits of evidence pointing to what you have also now come upon, that the socalled “dead pool” is a pretty arbitrary designation, that the sluice gates at the lake bottom are the source of a part of the daily releases (though I was never able to come up with clear figures for how much is released there and how much through power generation). I also learned that cleaning and oxigenation of this “dead pool” water happened pretty much automatically as it flowed downstream. It’s great to see that you’ve been able to confirm what I had deduced reading various and sundry technical reports.
At the time I had largely discounted this web site because it repeated the same (mis)information as the local media. I see now I was mistaken, and should have shared what I was learning here. I will in the future.
In that spirit, let me suggest a couple of areas for further investigation. The norm in federal law seems to be that water resources are shared equally between the states, i.e., that without other overriding concerns, Georgia would be allowed to consume 1/3rd of the water flow in the Hootch.
I believe, especially under drought conditions, that level of consumption (withdrawing from the river and not putting it back) might force the closure of the Farley nuke and a number of coal-fired plants (which also use river water for cooling). Power generation doesn’t CONSUME huge amounts of wanter, but it USES huge amounts, both directly in the cooling towers and indirectly in the rest of the river water helping to cool the water that returns to the river, so that the plant does not fall afoul of environmental standards. Arguments that power generation doesn’t “consume” much water are wrong, for the water flow MUST be maintained or else the plant shuts down, and water that must flow downstream past the power plant, from the point of view of communities upstream, is water consumed by the plant.
Although it’s been widely reported that the tri-state water dispute was been in court for nearly two decades, I’ve not seen a clear description of who is suing whom; what the status of the case is; nor what rulings exist.
This leads me to harbor the suspicion that the Southern Company (which directly or through subsidiaries like Georgia Power owns most of the power plants hereabouts, and the others have to hook into the power grids it controls) is very much involved in all this either in its own name, that of subsidiaries or allies, or through the political influence it has over various levels of government.
Much has been said about mussels and other endangered species; however, at least until recently, no overall studies of the needed water flows in the A-C-T watershed (if I remember the corps of engineers acronym right) for this or other environmental purposes had been done. At least, this is what has been repeatedly reported, and precisely that lack of knowlege + the precautionary principle (“first, do no harm…”) has been the main argument against modifying the corps of engineers operating plan for Lake Lanier.
That is extremely odd, and it would be interesting to discover whether it is in fact true and if so, whether EPA funding bills over the years have ever suggested, mandated or … prohibited such studies.
Finally, this will perhaps be controversial here, but I will say it anyways for people to consider and keep in the backs of their minds as we go through this. A lot of Georgia politics revolves around the “rural Georgia” versus “Atlanta” divide, and within the Atlanta metro area, between the counties that are largely of comletely outside 285 and the two core counties of Fulton and DeKalb, or the City of Atlanta itself.
This is not just a question of geographic interests, or rural versus metro area, or suburban versus urban interests. It is a racial divide. Atlanta has long had a majority-Black administration, and both Fulton and Dekalb counties now have majority-Black governments, too.
Coming up with a real regional water plan and water authority, which is what is needed, and what study commissions have apparently called for several times, means giving decisive weight in those bodies to the urban core of the metro area. This is, I believe, one of the biggest obstacles to the rational handling of water resources (and not just water, but planning generally, transit and many other questions).
As a new active poster, I certainly don’t propose that we have a big discussion around that here now, but I felt I should raise it as something for people to keep in the back of their minds and consider.
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Again, congratulations on a fine job of investigativer reporting … and apologies for not having pitched in. I’m using a “handle” here as I work in the mainstream media … not that any of you would recognize my name, but my bosses would … and quite likely they would not be pleased.
j.