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	<title>Comments on: Chattanooga sending some water to Atlanta - but not much</title>
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	<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/</link>
	<description>Keeping you informed about the Georgia drought.</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: tnmountains</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3309</link>
		<dc:creator>tnmountains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 05:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3309</guid>
		<description>I imagine this will go to the courts now that Tennesee has refused to form a water commision to awknowledge Georgias claim. I really feel no hatred towards the citizens of Georgia only the flawed government that is supposed to serve the peach state. Its so hard to beleive that the city was built without a sufficient water shed and allowed to expand.
 We also do not impede the water to our neighbors downstream. That would be very foolish.
  There is a solution for Georgia. They have just not figured it out yet....
 Been awhile and am thinking this thread is done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine this will go to the courts now that Tennesee has refused to form a water commision to awknowledge Georgias claim. I really feel no hatred towards the citizens of Georgia only the flawed government that is supposed to serve the peach state. Its so hard to beleive that the city was built without a sufficient water shed and allowed to expand.<br />
 We also do not impede the water to our neighbors downstream. That would be very foolish.<br />
  There is a solution for Georgia. They have just not figured it out yet&#8230;.<br />
 Been awhile and am thinking this thread is done?</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3165</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 03:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3165</guid>
		<description>Carol,

I thought that my original post on this thread (for which you blasted me) was clearly tongue in cheek.  Obviously, you didn't take it that way. :) 

The "neighborly thing to do" comment and the crack about Tennessee whiskey not being "real" bourbon...  I thought that was clearly tongue in cheek.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  There is obviously a lot of ill feelings on Tennessee's part toward GA, and their taunting of GA in this crisis really isn't funny.  But there are those folks such as yourself that take joy in others' misery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol,</p>
<p>I thought that my original post on this thread (for which you blasted me) was clearly tongue in cheek.  Obviously, you didn&#8217;t take it that way. <img src='http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>The &#8220;neighborly thing to do&#8221; comment and the crack about Tennessee whiskey not being &#8220;real&#8221; bourbon&#8230;  I thought that was clearly tongue in cheek.</p>
<p>Anyway, it doesn&#8217;t matter.  There is obviously a lot of ill feelings on Tennessee&#8217;s part toward GA, and their taunting of GA in this crisis really isn&#8217;t funny.  But there are those folks such as yourself that take joy in others&#8217; misery.</p>
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		<title>By: richs</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3107</link>
		<dc:creator>richs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 02:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3107</guid>
		<description>I see a lot of hatred in your post TN.  Unfortunately I'm sure a lot of people share your feelings.  

The fact that the name of the river is Tennessee doesn't mean you own it.  Georgia could make a much stronger claim to own the Chatahoochee since about 90% of it is on Georgia soil and the water that flows through it is about 90% rain that fell on Georgia dirt.  

But our downstream neigbors feel that they have more right to that water than we do.  Maybe your problem should be with them.  If they weren't strangling us from use of the Chatahoochee then no one from Georgia would need the Tenessee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see a lot of hatred in your post TN.  Unfortunately I&#8217;m sure a lot of people share your feelings.  </p>
<p>The fact that the name of the river is Tennessee doesn&#8217;t mean you own it.  Georgia could make a much stronger claim to own the Chatahoochee since about 90% of it is on Georgia soil and the water that flows through it is about 90% rain that fell on Georgia dirt.  </p>
<p>But our downstream neigbors feel that they have more right to that water than we do.  Maybe your problem should be with them.  If they weren&#8217;t strangling us from use of the Chatahoochee then no one from Georgia would need the Tenessee.</p>
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		<title>By: tnmountains</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3052</link>
		<dc:creator>tnmountains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 04:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-3052</guid>
		<description>I saw the first post about Orme mtn running out of water.It was true but below them are many many fresh water springs that flow year round.We can drill on top of a mtn and hit good water most of the time. Orme will be ok they have paid Ala to run a line up there. Neighbors.
My problem with Georgia is their legal tactics. We have adverse possesion and have maintained and openly used this land that was poorly surveyed.I have talked with many people in Tennessee and Georgia being on the border. I know the land they are speaking of and seen almost every sq mile of it.Here is the gist of what I am hearing in Tennessee. I think it rings kinda true if events continue.

We the people of Tennessee will never let Georgia pry the first drop of water from our River.It is the Tennessee river not the Georgia river. We will fight and it will be like a war between the states. Everyone knows Tennessee is a proud state and not a sneaky gluttonous fat Government . Georgia has lost its roots and identity to to what it once was.Now the gluttony and poor planning calls for underhanded tactics.Shame !
They should have at least offered the General (you know history the train) back after they stole it at the beginning of negotiations. Instead they go in our face with lawyers and politicians.
Not only that we are having a good ole boy bass tournament this weekend if the water gets down. To much rain has made our banks over flow.All the bass being caught are in the azelias.
 The sad thing is Tennessee might have worked something out if it had of started negotiations correctly.
Good luck Georgia. We do not need you to be honest and really do not care. I forget how many lifes we lost trying to stop the north from burning down Atlanta in the civil war.Maybe you guys need a fresh start again but we(the volunteers) will not be there to help this time. How do you say it in Georgia? Adios Amigo !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw the first post about Orme mtn running out of water.It was true but below them are many many fresh water springs that flow year round.We can drill on top of a mtn and hit good water most of the time. Orme will be ok they have paid Ala to run a line up there. Neighbors.<br />
My problem with Georgia is their legal tactics. We have adverse possesion and have maintained and openly used this land that was poorly surveyed.I have talked with many people in Tennessee and Georgia being on the border. I know the land they are speaking of and seen almost every sq mile of it.Here is the gist of what I am hearing in Tennessee. I think it rings kinda true if events continue.</p>
<p>We the people of Tennessee will never let Georgia pry the first drop of water from our River.It is the Tennessee river not the Georgia river. We will fight and it will be like a war between the states. Everyone knows Tennessee is a proud state and not a sneaky gluttonous fat Government . Georgia has lost its roots and identity to to what it once was.Now the gluttony and poor planning calls for underhanded tactics.Shame !<br />
They should have at least offered the General (you know history the train) back after they stole it at the beginning of negotiations. Instead they go in our face with lawyers and politicians.<br />
Not only that we are having a good ole boy bass tournament this weekend if the water gets down. To much rain has made our banks over flow.All the bass being caught are in the azelias.<br />
 The sad thing is Tennessee might have worked something out if it had of started negotiations correctly.<br />
Good luck Georgia. We do not need you to be honest and really do not care. I forget how many lifes we lost trying to stop the north from burning down Atlanta in the civil war.Maybe you guys need a fresh start again but we(the volunteers) will not be there to help this time. How do you say it in Georgia? Adios Amigo !</p>
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		<title>By: RichS</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2999</link>
		<dc:creator>RichS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2999</guid>
		<description>Carol - your understanding is simplistic enough that an eight year old could follow it.  However the situation is complicated enough that there have been some 20 years of court battles and I would venture to guess tens of thousands of pages of legal arguments on both sides.  Maybe you should deepen your understanding instead of screeching at those of us who see a very complex issue in which Georgia has both some pretty strong legal and moral standing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carol - your understanding is simplistic enough that an eight year old could follow it.  However the situation is complicated enough that there have been some 20 years of court battles and I would venture to guess tens of thousands of pages of legal arguments on both sides.  Maybe you should deepen your understanding instead of screeching at those of us who see a very complex issue in which Georgia has both some pretty strong legal and moral standing.</p>
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		<title>By: Carol</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2996</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2996</guid>
		<description>Beth, it's pointless to argue with RichS about this.  You are right, of course, as are Andrew and most of the other posters.  Rich just doesn't seem to get it.  It's not complicated and the rest of us understand who owns the water in the lake, but RichS doesn't.  Even an 8-year-old could understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beth, it&#8217;s pointless to argue with RichS about this.  You are right, of course, as are Andrew and most of the other posters.  Rich just doesn&#8217;t seem to get it.  It&#8217;s not complicated and the rest of us understand who owns the water in the lake, but RichS doesn&#8217;t.  Even an 8-year-old could understand.</p>
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		<title>By: RichS</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2983</link>
		<dc:creator>RichS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2983</guid>
		<description>"Keeping the water IS taking it"

No - keeping is keeping.  Taking is taking.  (I could double check dictionary.com, but I feel pretty sure about this.....)

Atlanta wants to KEEP

Florida and Alabama want to TAKE.  

Unless you use the strange logic where keeping is taking and taking is keeping.  I'm giving myself a headache here just thinking about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Keeping the water IS taking it&#8221;</p>
<p>No - keeping is keeping.  Taking is taking.  (I could double check dictionary.com, but I feel pretty sure about this&#8230;..)</p>
<p>Atlanta wants to KEEP</p>
<p>Florida and Alabama want to TAKE.  </p>
<p>Unless you use the strange logic where keeping is taking and taking is keeping.  I&#8217;m giving myself a headache here just thinking about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2982</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 23:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2982</guid>
		<description>RichS

"You are wrong Beth. Atlanta is not asking to “use” more water. It is simply asking to keep more of the water that is already stored here instead of releasing it downstream."

Wrong. Atlanta is asking for more of the lake water. It was part of the deal Georgia made with the Corps that was recently overturned by the courts because it exceeds the jurisdiction that the Corps and Georgia have over the water in the lake. Keeping the water IS taking it from others because it isn't your water to keep. Atlanta wants to keep more so that it will be there to keep providing Atlanta with water.

It's not as if Atlanta wanted more water in the lake but wasn't going to touch it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RichS</p>
<p>&#8220;You are wrong Beth. Atlanta is not asking to “use” more water. It is simply asking to keep more of the water that is already stored here instead of releasing it downstream.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wrong. Atlanta is asking for more of the lake water. It was part of the deal Georgia made with the Corps that was recently overturned by the courts because it exceeds the jurisdiction that the Corps and Georgia have over the water in the lake. Keeping the water IS taking it from others because it isn&#8217;t your water to keep. Atlanta wants to keep more so that it will be there to keep providing Atlanta with water.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not as if Atlanta wanted more water in the lake but wasn&#8217;t going to touch it.</p>
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		<title>By: RichS</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2981</link>
		<dc:creator>RichS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2981</guid>
		<description>While oversimplifications abound, this is a pretty fair and reasonably unbiased summary of the law as prepared by Florida State University.  

http://www.ucowr.siu.edu/updates/131/10_ruhl.pdf

just because Georgia is upstream of Florida, it has no inherent right to
deplete the flow of water to Florida, to take priority over Florida in use of the ACF waters, or use interstate waters within its boundaries however it
sees fit. Yet, while these principles may sound good for Florida’s interests, there is more to it. First, the Court has set a high standard of injury as a
prerequisite to seeking relief in the form of a claim to the right to more water from an interstate stream.

The complaining state must show clear and convincing evidence of a substantial injury to its interests as a result of another state’s use of the
resource.9 Particularly in the East, where the Riparian Rights system dominates state water law, this burden places states interested in water
conservation at a disadvantage to states interested in rapid development of water resources (Abrams 2002). Florida, for example, is interested in leaving water in the ACF to promote ecological resources,
while Georgia seeks ever more water for its urban and agricultural sectors. It is difficult for a state in Florida’s position, under the conventional burden of proof, to pinpoint the nature and magnitude of
injury needed to open the Court’s door. If that hurdle is passed, the Court applies a rather open-ended doctrine known as “equitable apportionment” to resolve the dispute. As summarized in Nebraska v. Wyoming,10 the
51 UCOWR Water Wars JOURNAL OF CONTEMPORARY WATER RESEARCH &#38; EDUCATION factors that go into this mix include, but are not
limited to:
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While oversimplifications abound, this is a pretty fair and reasonably unbiased summary of the law as prepared by Florida State University.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ucowr.siu.edu/updates/131/10_ruhl.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ucowr.siu.edu/updates/131/10_ruhl.pdf</a></p>
<p>just because Georgia is upstream of Florida, it has no inherent right to<br />
deplete the flow of water to Florida, to take priority over Florida in use of the ACF waters, or use interstate waters within its boundaries however it<br />
sees fit. Yet, while these principles may sound good for Florida’s interests, there is more to it. First, the Court has set a high standard of injury as a<br />
prerequisite to seeking relief in the form of a claim to the right to more water from an interstate stream.</p>
<p>The complaining state must show clear and convincing evidence of a substantial injury to its interests as a result of another state’s use of the<br />
resource.9 Particularly in the East, where the Riparian Rights system dominates state water law, this burden places states interested in water<br />
conservation at a disadvantage to states interested in rapid development of water resources (Abrams 2002). Florida, for example, is interested in leaving water in the ACF to promote ecological resources,<br />
while Georgia seeks ever more water for its urban and agricultural sectors. It is difficult for a state in Florida’s position, under the conventional burden of proof, to pinpoint the nature and magnitude of<br />
injury needed to open the Court’s door. If that hurdle is passed, the Court applies a rather open-ended doctrine known as “equitable apportionment” to resolve the dispute. As summarized in Nebraska v. Wyoming,10 the<br />
51 UCOWR Water Wars JOURNAL OF CONTEMPORARY WATER RESEARCH &amp; EDUCATION factors that go into this mix include, but are not<br />
limited to:</p>
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		<title>By: RichS</title>
		<link>http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2980</link>
		<dc:creator>RichS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20080226/chattanooga-sending-some-water-to-atlanta-but-not-much/#comment-2980</guid>
		<description>Andrew - please understand the problems associated with bringing desal water into Atlanta.  Not only a couple of hundred miles of pipeline, plus the cost of desal, plus the pumping required to move that water nearly 1000 feet uphill.  Florida is doing nothing on that scale.  Nor is it being done anywhere in the world.

Consider this -  Assume the water is equally valuable to Georgia as it is to Florida.  Why doesn't Florida desal water and pump it into the Apalachicola river?  It would cost Florida much less to do that than it will cost Georgia to pump the same desalinized water to Atlanta with the same ultimate effect.  

The truth is that however much Florida claims otherwise, they don't really need the water in the same way Atlanta does.  They want it enough to see Atlanta wither into a dust bowl, but not enough to spend billions of dollars on a solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew - please understand the problems associated with bringing desal water into Atlanta.  Not only a couple of hundred miles of pipeline, plus the cost of desal, plus the pumping required to move that water nearly 1000 feet uphill.  Florida is doing nothing on that scale.  Nor is it being done anywhere in the world.</p>
<p>Consider this -  Assume the water is equally valuable to Georgia as it is to Florida.  Why doesn&#8217;t Florida desal water and pump it into the Apalachicola river?  It would cost Florida much less to do that than it will cost Georgia to pump the same desalinized water to Atlanta with the same ultimate effect.  </p>
<p>The truth is that however much Florida claims otherwise, they don&#8217;t really need the water in the same way Atlanta does.  They want it enough to see Atlanta wither into a dust bowl, but not enough to spend billions of dollars on a solution.</p>
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