Comments on: Not all water systems were able to cut water production by 10% http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/ Keeping you informed about the Georgia drought. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:44:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Atlanta Water Shortage » Georgia Drought » Blog Archive » Fulton County reduces water use by 19 percent http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-2437 Atlanta Water Shortage » Georgia Drought » Blog Archive » Fulton County reduces water use by 19 percent Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:39:41 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-2437 [...] for December, 2007 was down by 19.1% when compared to December, 2006.   Not bad, considering many water systems were unable to meet the goal in November.  I’d be curious to see how the others did in December when compared to [...] [...] for December, 2007 was down by 19.1% when compared to December, 2006.   Not bad, considering many water systems were unable to meet the goal in November.  I’d be curious to see how the others did in December when compared to [...]

]]> By: SAK's http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-2137 SAK's Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:24:54 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-2137 Although 'water usage' is the theme here, I find the power shortage potential more electrifying. Ahem. Has anyone on AWS investigated the anticipated power loss to Atlanta, as the FIRST major side effect of water loss? Here's my reasoning. Today, the AJC reported the 61 county area lessened their November water consumption by 15%. 6% of this reduction came from residences and businesses while the remaining 9% came from the shutdown of two hydroelectric plants. Both plants were reporting financial losses due to the t shutdown. One was shutdown for equipment repair, the other due to 'drought restrictions'. They consume hundreds of millions of gallons daily when they are operating. FYI: SEPA is the entity that reroutes electrical power by the way. If you google drought summit june 2007 you will find an ACE pdf, (see page 4) where the SEPA rep is saying that Allatoona loses 25% of it's hydroelectric generating capacity when at 828-830 ft. Well, it is now at 818 ft. On the lanier side,AWS bloggers, quoting the Corp, have stated that the two big turbines stop at 1035 ft or so....with a smaller one at 1020. So it appears to beg a question of SEPA or other public authorities...how may power days are left and how much more will it cost in the future? I have read about the much reduced water consumption by GA Power, for instance, once they installed cooling towers. The water savings were tremendous. SAK Although ‘water usage’ is the theme here, I find the power shortage potential more electrifying. Ahem. Has anyone on AWS investigated the anticipated power loss to Atlanta, as the FIRST major side effect of water loss? Here’s my reasoning.
Today, the AJC reported the 61 county area lessened their November water consumption by 15%. 6% of this reduction came from residences and businesses while the remaining 9% came from the shutdown of two hydroelectric plants. Both plants were reporting financial losses due to the t shutdown. One was shutdown for equipment repair, the other due to ‘drought restrictions’. They consume hundreds of millions of gallons daily when they are operating. FYI: SEPA is the entity that reroutes electrical power by the way. If you google drought summit june 2007 you will find an ACE pdf, (see page 4) where the SEPA rep is saying that Allatoona loses 25% of it’s hydroelectric generating capacity when at 828-830 ft. Well, it is now at 818 ft. On the lanier side,AWS bloggers, quoting the Corp, have stated that the two big turbines stop at 1035 ft or so….with a smaller one at 1020.
So it appears to beg a question of SEPA or other public authorities…how may power days are left and how much more will it cost in the future? I have read about the much reduced water consumption by GA Power, for instance, once they installed cooling towers. The water savings were tremendous. SAK

]]> By: GThierry http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1906 GThierry Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:15:50 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1906 In case anyone wants more info, notanumber mentioned Orme Creek. Orme Creek runs into Clear Creek near Piedmont Park. Clear Creek runs into Peachtree Creek. This is close to where I grew up. There is/was a concrete flume for combined sewer overflow along the east side of the park. There's a picture of the flume on page 18 of http://www.piedmontpark.org/pdf/NW-MP-draft.pdf and next to it a chart showing the location of underground culverts. The city built a sewer treatment center in the area recently. So treated water runs into Clear Creek and eventually into the Chattahoochee. In case anyone wants more info, notanumber mentioned Orme Creek. Orme Creek runs into Clear Creek near Piedmont Park. Clear Creek runs into Peachtree Creek. This is close to where I grew up.

There is/was a concrete flume for combined sewer overflow along the east side of the park. There’s a picture of the flume on page 18 of http://www.piedmontpark.org/pdf/NW-MP-draft.pdf and next to it a chart showing the location of underground culverts. The city built a sewer treatment center in the area recently. So treated water runs into Clear Creek and eventually into the Chattahoochee.

]]> By: rkolter http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1900 rkolter Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:50:50 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1900 Well, that's both disgusting and explanatory. It means that at least that particular creek doesn't make it into the calculations when we're talking about Grey water. It doesn't go through the same system as the sewer for treatment and eventual re-release. Well, that’s both disgusting and explanatory.

It means that at least that particular creek doesn’t make it into the calculations when we’re talking about Grey water. It doesn’t go through the same system as the sewer for treatment and eventual re-release.

]]> By: GThierry http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1892 GThierry Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:24:16 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1892 rkolter, I think you're are looking at the North and South Forks of Peachtree Creek in DeKalb County. The two forks come together and empty into the Chattahoochee in Fulton County. The flow there is 13 cf/s. There's a picture of the gage site in Fulton County at http://ga2.er.usgs.gov/gawater/siteinfo.cfm?siteno=02336300&code=121 that shows it's not encased. However, Atlanta's original sewer system was a combined sanitary-storm system, part of which are over 100 years old. In case of rain, sanitary sewage can overflow into storm sewers. The problem is being corrected. See: http://gis.esri.com/library/userconf/proc01/professional/papers/pap722/p722.htm http://www.atlantaga.gov/media/sewerrehab_081203.aspx http://www.cleanwateratlanta.org/SSES/Technology/SmokeTest.htm or just search for "Atlanta sewer system" or something similar. rkolter, I think you’re are looking at the North and South Forks of Peachtree Creek in DeKalb County. The two forks come together and empty into the Chattahoochee in Fulton County. The flow there is 13 cf/s. There’s a picture of the gage site in Fulton County at http://ga2.er.usgs.gov/gawater/siteinfo.cfm?siteno=02336300&code=121 that shows it’s not encased.

However, Atlanta’s original sewer system was a combined sanitary-storm system, part of which are over 100 years old. In case of rain, sanitary sewage can overflow into storm sewers. The problem is being corrected.

See:

http://gis.esri.com/library/userconf/proc01/professional/papers/pap722/p722.htm
http://www.atlantaga.gov/media/sewerrehab_081203.aspx
http://www.cleanwateratlanta.org/SSES/Technology/SmokeTest.htm

or just search for “Atlanta sewer system” or something similar.

]]> By: rkolter http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1890 rkolter Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:50:51 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1890 Peachtree has a 5.5 cf/s flow north of Atlanta and 8.9 cf/s south of Atlanta - seems that while it does gather water, it's not being redirected via the treatment center into the Chattahoochie. If you're right and it's going through the sewer, it's coming out really gross and half again as fast. >.< http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ga/nwis/current/?type=flow&group_key=county_cd Peachtree has a 5.5 cf/s flow north of Atlanta and 8.9 cf/s south of Atlanta - seems that while it does gather water, it’s not being redirected via the treatment center into the Chattahoochie.

If you’re right and it’s going through the sewer, it’s coming out really gross and half again as fast. >.<

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ga/nwis/current/?type=flow&group_key=county_cd

]]> By: rkolter http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1883 rkolter Tue, 11 Dec 2007 14:01:51 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1883 How does a stream encased in cement and brick collect groundwater during a drought when the rest of the system is not? How does a stream collect groundwater during a drought when streams interact with their environments by feeding the water table when the water table is low (such as during a drought)? Do you know for a fact that those streams are diverted into the water treatment plant's facility, and are not simply rediverted elsewhere, as most streams are when they're encased and buried during the growth of a city? To put this in a different light - why would metro Atlanta accept wear and tear on their sewer system, and pay to treat water from a natural stream, before paying to pump that water into another river, gaining no benefit from that water? I'm just not convinced. How does a stream encased in cement and brick collect groundwater during a drought when the rest of the system is not?

How does a stream collect groundwater during a drought when streams interact with their environments by feeding the water table when the water table is low (such as during a drought)?

Do you know for a fact that those streams are diverted into the water treatment plant’s facility, and are not simply rediverted elsewhere, as most streams are when they’re encased and buried during the growth of a city?

To put this in a different light - why would metro Atlanta accept wear and tear on their sewer system, and pay to treat water from a natural stream, before paying to pump that water into another river, gaining no benefit from that water?

I’m just not convinced.

]]> By: notanumber http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1864 notanumber Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:48:58 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1864 rkolter - Many of Atlanta's larger sewer mains continually collect more water due to the fact that they are the remnants of Atlanta's natural steams. (eg Orme Creek, Peachtree Creek etc.) These sewer mains are really just large, now antique, brick enclosures of the original stream converting the natural existing geologic drainage topographay into a combined sewer. These natural geologic streams still continue to collect groundwater even in a drought, albeit reduced. rkolter - Many of Atlanta’s larger sewer mains continually collect more water due to the fact that they are the remnants of Atlanta’s natural steams. (eg Orme Creek, Peachtree Creek etc.) These sewer mains are really just large, now antique, brick enclosures of the original stream converting the natural existing geologic drainage topographay into a combined sewer. These natural geologic streams still continue to collect groundwater even in a drought, albeit reduced.

]]> By: RichS http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1862 RichS Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:32:00 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1862 LOL - maybe that's what the three governors need to try. Three men enter one man leaves. LOL - maybe that’s what the three governors need to try. Three men enter one man leaves.

]]> By: rkolter http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1860 rkolter Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:09:53 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071206/not-all-water-systems-were-able-to-cut-water-production-by-10/#comment-1860 You two only get to fight if I get to pick the weapons. Electrified rusty chainsaws as thrown weapons. Think lawn darts. Only much, much worse. You two only get to fight if I get to pick the weapons. Electrified rusty chainsaws as thrown weapons. Think lawn darts. Only much, much worse.

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