Maybe gray water isn’t the way to go
Just over a month ago, we posted about how using gray water might be a great way to help conserve water. Now a UGA scientist has come out and said that gray water usage probably isn’t a good idea.
Todd Rasmussen, a hydrology professor at UGA, says that gray water is typically pretty safe, but has the potential to be dangerous as it could still contain traces of fecal matter, blood or other contaminants. Even water that comes from a clean running sink (waiting for it to warm up before you shave, for example) is only good for about 24 hours until the chlorine evaporates or breaks down.
Maybe the best solution would be a gray water system that re-chlorinates the water before it’s pumped back into your toilets. It’s not mentioned in the article, but it would seem to make sense. Thoughts?
November 25th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
I don’t see why some microscopic fecal matter or a tiny bit of blood from brushing your teeth or whatnot should be a problem for using the water to flush your toilet.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
I use gray water to power a miniature waterfall that keeps me from stressing out about the drought. The only person at risk is the clay Chinese fisherman sitting at the top of it
November 25th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
A simple UV sterilizer could be used.
November 25th, 2007 at 11:56 pm
As long as you do not drink gray water, or bathe in it, then it’s no problem to be used to water plants and zero problem to use it to flush toilets. Georgians better become more concerned about city of Cumming planning to use the brackish bacteria-laden water from the dead pool at Lake Lanier. That water must NOT be used for drinking NO matter what is done to treat it. Plus it could cause skin rashes for those with sensitive skin like me. I hope to God that Coca-Cola plant in Atlanta does not use it for any of their products.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:08 am
Of interest > I just checked the drought day clock timer on AJC newspaper and instead of changing to 97 days has remained at 98. Either it is not set properly or AJC is playing games with us all.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:18 am
Weather radar from Atlanta shows huge blob of rain moving toward Georgia, from Alabama, at 3:00 am this morning. If this storm breaks apart over Atlanta, or fizzles out, then I give up and am going to move away soon.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:59 am
Jay - The brackish water in the dead pool can be cleaned and used for drinking water - it is, in fact, by some municipalities already whose pipes extend that far.
Atlanta gets its water from downstream of the dam - the water will have had a chance to mix with oxygen before reaching Atlanta’s intake pipes. And assuming they scrub the water, it’ll be fine to drink.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:30 am
I have an irrigation system. What if directed all the downspouts on my gutters into an underground tank, and pumped water directly from the tank into the irrigation system? It would be legal and clean. Just not so sure how expensive it would be.
Grey water should be perfectly fine for irrigating, though.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:00 am
rkolter > as the water gets progressively closer to the bottom of the dead pool, then the more brackish and more bacteria-laden. Wash it if you want, but do NOT drink it. As for Atlanta: the dead pool water cannot flow out the dam to be oxygenated by the river. Once the dead pool level is reached, and starting to be sucked out by city of Cumming, then streams above Lake Lanier will flow into the dead pool area. That will help to dilute it somewhat, but still makes it risky to drink. Far wiser to drink bottled water at that stage.
As for the new rainstorm today: radar loop shows some breakup again around Atlanta, so air pollution keeps stunting the rain potential and enhances the drought. Only days of heavy rain can recharge Lake Lanier.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Correction for above post: Wash WITH it ( meaning use it for bathing or laundry) if you want, …
(Referring to Lanier’s dead pool water.)
November 26th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Jay - The assumption is that, instead of allowing Atlanta to go without water entirely, a means will be found to pump the Deadpool water up over the dam. That’s a weighty assumption, given no such plan has been shown to the public yet, but that’s what we’re all hoping for.
That water, once purified, is as drinkable as any water. The one assumption being that the plant purifying Atlanta’s drinking water can handle the extra bacterial load. Other plants, with intake pipes that already reach into the deadpool, manage just fine.
You wouldn’t want to drink it straight from the dam. But you wouldn’t want to drink the water currently coming from the dam without purification either.
November 26th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Personally, I am not in favor of gray water solutions to our problem - they are almost gimmick like, don’t address the shortage and are expensive to the homeowner/user. I am into blue water (not a term, I made that up) solutions. The earth is over 80% water so let’s get creative and leverage our coast lines. I am in favor of massive regional de-salinization plants funded and built by a collaboration of SC, GA, FL and AL. Those 4 states have over 2,000 miles of coast line. Tampa built one a few years back in anticipation of this type of shortage and it is supplementing the city’s water as we speak and in no fear of running totally dry. We don’t need to become “third world like” with gray water by re-using our waste water just yet. Gray water ideas may make you “feel” better, but re-using water that is, literally, “already over the dam” won’t address a shortage of supply.What we need are big, aggressive, long term ideas. De-sal won’t supply all the water, but with rain, conservation (not gray!), and better planning we can get through this. I am not seeing any form of breakthrough planning or ideas from our leaders who have budgets, staff, and the responsibility to do so. Think BLUE water.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
Watch the current radar loop. The precip dried out over Atlanta again..it’s all south and moving to the northwest, where Athens is getting a good soaking. We probably got 1/2″ again, total, yesterday to today at my house in Grant Park. This is ridiculous. Every rain even is weak, and dissipates over our region.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Thoughts? This is disgusting. I am sorry, but for a city to have to result to this. You pay for certain services through your taxes, so technically, you guys are the BOSS. This is terrible. Vote with your feet folks! MOVE!!!!!! Hell, there is an EMPTY city ready to be completely rebuilt and reborn called New Orleans!!!! Start anew! I saw this coming in Atlanta 4yrs ago, and left. I saw that migration AND “immgration” was going to be a problem with Atlanta yrs ago, so bye-bye. I know most of you are saying “GOOD! who needs yuh!”, you ATL lovuhs!!!
I am just saying, if it were an apartment complex or a house with a land lord and they ran your residence this way? You would move!!!!!
r
November 26th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
trebor > those who rent or lease, apartments or houses, in Georgia can break the lease and move away from this state, but they have to get jobs to survive somewhere else. Those who are average middle class homeowners are stuck here, because who would want to buy their houses in a drought stricken area.
The wealthy can just lock their houses up, hire a security guard, and flee to wherever they want or another one of their houses in another state.
Steve > I have been observing weather radar loops for the past year over Atlanta. Apparently heavy air pollution over the city is retarding/stunting rainfall around Atlanta. I live at Stone Mountain and I am going to have to move away, because Atlanta’s interference with rain here is killing us bad.
rkolter > to pump water over the Buford Dam from the dead pool, into the river below for Atlanta’s intake, would be difficult. Either a pipe would have to be installed under the road, at top of dam, or closure of the road to lay a pipe over it. What should be done is to use bulldozers to reform the original river bed that flowed, before the dam was built, to allow the stream water from above Lanier to bypass the dead pool area and exit the dam channel. Let Cumming use the dregs of the dead pool and treat it with chemicals.
Note: My rain gauge shows just over 1/2 inch, so Atlanta pollution prevented getting an inch or two. Rain was also retarded above Lanier.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I’m not so sure it’s related to pollution. It could be, but that’s an interesting theory.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
I disagree. Where there is a will there is way. Really! The will must be so much that it takes over the fear, and you just do it. I don’t want to argue, it’s just my opinion. I did it. I was in the same boat you describe, and I did it. If I can,…trust me…….people can
I moved to Memphis. Not too too much of an improvement as far as government, but hey, it’s been raining heavy for 3days now,….and it will rain again in a few more.
t
November 26th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Steve > I posted a link to a weather study done by NASA on pollution stunting rainfall, around US cities in winter months, on one of the threads below this one. One of the studies was done on Atlanta.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
On the plus side, the lake is looking light it might have more water in it than the day before for the first time in months and months. That is, unless the ACE does an evening water release after all. One isn’t scheduled.
Jay - reforming the original riverbed would be fine, but for the fact that the original stream doesn’t output nearly enough water for the needs of the people in Atlanta. The whole question of if Atlanta grew too fast aside, the fact remains you have lots of people who you now must provide water to, and to do that, you need the deadpool water.
And lots and lots of rain.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
I thought this post was about gray water, folks?
November 26th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
I will continue to use bathwater to water my ornamentals. Reading what he said in its entirety, he is largely concerned only with gray water from those who are unhealthy. In addition, there are many people who have studied this in much greater depth, and there is little concern elsewhere.
And no. It is not necessarily expensive. A bucket to scoop up the tub water or placed in the shower is hardly gimmicky or expensive. A simple way to keep shrubs and trees alive.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
rkolter > before the drought the river and streams above Lanier flowed at least a billion or more gallons of water daily. At present there is a flow of a few hundred million gallons flowing from the Georgia mountains into it still. I would rather have a reduced amount of water to Atlanta, and suburbs, than competing with city of Cumming for the dregs of the dead pool.
Nobody yet in Georgia’s government has done the math yet to figure out that there will NOT be enough water for power plants and cities to use at same time. North Carolina is requiring a 50% drop in water usage and residents are doing it. Atlanta might be able to get up to 250 million gallons a day, thus half of original 500+ million daily, but will have to fight Alabama and Florida to hold onto it.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Long term solution is more reservoirs for Georgia, but will take heavy rain to fill them up. New reservoirs might be empty till the drought ends. Last June the Georgia Governor should have demanded a 50% reduction in water release from Lanier and all the other lakes. If that had been done, then Lanier would have had water at least till January 2009. Now it just has about 100 days till level of dead pool and then 60 to 90 days of water left from it.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Actually last June the Governor did demand the water releases be slowed. His demand was denied. Unfortunately it’s up to the federal government. The courts sided with them last year.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Keep in mind that while we did not see much rain here in Atlanta or at the lake, there was a lot that down around West Point which should help out down that way. Which in turn might mean that we less water being released out of Lanier over the next few days.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
RichS > Gov. Perdue did not try enough. He could have sent State Police or Georgia National Guard to the Buford Dam to halt excessive release of water. 22 extra billion gallons of water was released supposedly by mistake last June, by the US Army Corp of Engineers. That was/is grounds for their removal from operating release of water from Buford Dam/Lake Lanier. On November 15, of this year, the corps released 2.6 billion gallons in one day without any explanation. AJC newspaper has documented both of those events. Real reason for massive water release is an old obsolete power plant in Florida, located just below Woodruff Dam that requires flow level of 3.2 billion gallons of water on the river below dam. The plant should have been shut-down or replaced or refurbished many years ago. The press will soon focus on that plant and Gulf Power might be sued for negligence and conspiracy to defraud the citizens of Georgia.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
wspurlock > critical watershed for Lake Lanier > the Georgia mountains > got shafted on this latest storm > only about one inch of rain. That will not give much recharge to Lake Lanier. Two inches of rain, below Atlanta could flow on Flint River to Woodruff Dam, but still not lead to much release reduction there.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Jay - Seizing control of the dam will be an event that is probably unprecedented in American history - at least since the war of northern aggression (That’s the civil war for you Yankees - lol). I don’t agree that it should have been done already. I do agree that a day is fast approaching that it should happen.
It’s a good point for discussion. At what point should the Governor call out the national guard and sieze control of the dam? Will the federal government get it’s head out of it’s ass before that needs to happen - or should Georgia just suck it up and watch a preventable doomsday scenerio unfold?
November 26th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
we shouldnt use grey water. It is nasty and could have poison in it. Why do flordia and alabama thik our lake water is theirs. it is georgias property isnt it? We should take chrge and protest against this thorie
November 26th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
RichS > yes the seizure of the dam by Georgia National Guard might set off a firestorm of protest in DC, Alabama, and Florida. But at this rate of water loss it could end up the only option. Waiting to do anything once Lake Lanier is empty is too late.
Too bad half of our National Guard is in Iraq. We might need them to slap the snot out of Florida Gov. Charlie Crist’s Guard coming into Georgia to try to get the dam back for their selfish needs. Alabama Guard would be wise to stay out.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
At least Washington DC will start paying attention to the problem if we do seize the dam. The Lt. Governor has made a “joking” reference to calling out the Guard to take control. I think he might have been more serious than people give him credit for. Not sure if Sonny is on the same page though.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Jay, the point is that no matter what the rains that fell to the south of us covered a great deal of the ACF (Apalachicola-Chattahoochee-Flint)river basin and will lead to some release reduction. It may not be much but at this point any little bit helps. We’ve seen this happen before. The question might be is the smaller amount that fell above the dam, will the be small enough to offset the rain that fell below Atlanta. And given that we are seeing the level of Lanier going up so far today it’s a good bet that it will be. We started the day at 1052.00. At the start of the release it was at 1052.02, the exact same amount that we were at at the end of the release.
Currently it is at 1052.07. It may have only been an inch of rain, but it’s clearly helping out at least a little bit.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
Jay, if it gets bad enough that the guard commandeers the dam and social unrest breaks out, you will have scenario (1) that I replied to you under the wiki post - fed martial law. But, the emotions and ideas you put forward are and will become more palatable to all those who stand to have no drinking water. This will get very ugly and gray water will be the last thing on people’s minds. I guess we need to be careful what is wished for…
November 26th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Just to make sure those numbers were right, I just double checked on the release times. Good thing I did, as they were changed from an am release too a pm release, 6:55 - 9:10
November 26th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
yo daddy — I’m pretty sure that when you dam up a river, you’re still required to release water to the states downriver and not just horde it all for yourself.
I’m not sure how much we’re legally required to send based on that idea, but we certainly can’t keep it all.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
wspurlock > the rain was enough to keep our yards watered for a week anyway. Any rain is better than none, but watershed area for Lake Lanier must start getting some heavy rainstorms that drop 4 inches or more at a time. AJC newspaper had an article that 4 inches of rain in Georgia mountains would raise the lake level over one foot in a week. One inch or less rains can be obsorbed by the dry lake side before flowing into it. Rain to the south of Atlanta will flow into Lake Seminole over next few days. Problem is Gov. Crist demanding release of 3.2 billion gallons of water daily from Woodruff Dam at that lake. Obsolete Scholz power plants needs that water level to operate. The old plant was built in 1953 and must be shut-down before we all have no water.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
wspurlock > Corp of Engineers is notorious for releasing extra water from Lanier when they do it late in the evening. Please let us new the new lake level after release tonight. Nonetheless corps might try to lie on amount released. They work for the Power industry now and do whatever they want.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:36 pm
wspurlock - I was afraid they’d change the release. This was working up to be the first day of water gain in months.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Please let us know NOT new in my post above.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Sponge > my feeling is that Gov. Perdue will wait too late to activate the Guard, after Lanier is basically empty. He will be blamed by Georgians if we end up with zero water in a few months.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Jay, you do realize that activating the Guard to protect Lake Lanier would be a ploy to get the federal government to realize the severity of the situation and draw attention to the issue in Atlanta, and not, in fact, an effective military reaction of any kind, right?
It would work too - it is a desperate and drastic enough move that it would push the drought to a national crisis.
But any actual attempt to exert any actual military control over the Buford Dam would be met with an order by the President to stand down. Those National Guard who didn’t stand down might be heroes in Georgia, but they’d be literally by definition, guilty of treason. How many brave National Guard people would willingly commit treason for Governor Perdue?
November 26th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
rkolter > seizing the Buford Dam would not be considered a military action, by us Georgian residents, but I lived in Florida for many years and Gov. Dummy Crist might consider it that way. I would look at it as an emergency measure, since Corp of Engineers seems to be acting out-of-control.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
rkolter > Each state’s National Guard is beholden to their state first and federal government second. Who in Georgia would side with Bush to help Florida or Alabama to steal our water?
I would prefer to have water releases cut by 50% now, to conserve our reservoirs, than to wait till they are almost empty and thus send the Guard to protect the dregs for Coca-Cola company and power plants.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Laner level dropped to 1052.03 as of 7 PM with just over two hours of release time yet to go.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
And as of 8:00 we’re back to even for the day, at 1052.00.
Like you, I thought today might be our first positive day in a while. Doesn’t appear that it will be…
November 26th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
Jay - The National Guard is a branch of the US Army, and is not beholden to their state first and the federal government second. That’s simply not factual information. They can be called upon by the Governor should a state of emergency be declared, however at all times, are part of the US Army, and specifically the state militias are under the control of the President as Commander-in-Chief when called upon to act in the service of the United States. Federal first, State second.
If Governor Perdue declared a state of emergency and ordered the Georgia National Guard to take control of the Buford Dam, the President could in fact order them to stand down, and if they did not do so, they, as well as the Governor mind you, would be guilty of treason - the taking up of arms against the lawful government of the United States.
I’m not saying that I don’t see where you’re coming from. I’m just saying that it’s not a logical, rational, or likely course of action.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Mickey -
We’re a long way from hording water. Assuming the hypothetical takeover there would still be at least the minimum flow that Atlanta needs. That would be somewhere in the region of equal to inflow. Equalizing inflow and outflow is a long way from hording. It’s just breaking even and should not be an unreasonable compromise.
Ok Rkolter - you make some good points. So if a national guard takeover isn’t likely how about an armed uprising of us peasants. It is exactly the reason there is a second amendment right to bear arms.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:09 pm
I suppose I should clarify my last post before I get hauled in by the gestapo. My armed uprising scenario is an interesting hypothetical - not a call for action. I can see it happening, but I think it would only be after the situation is critical. It would be part of the general rioting and civil unrest that would follow water running out in Atlanta. It would almost certainly be too disorgainized and too late to have any positive effect. It is an interesting topic though and I would like to hear comments.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
rkolter > remember that I said to send State Police to the dam first, but any true Georgian National Guard member would NOT stand down especially if ordered to hand Lanier’s water over to Alabama and Florida.
My fear is that all the water will be gone and then the Guard is ordered out just to protect the elite from rioters. At the beginning of summer there should have been reduced release of water from Lanier and all the other dams. Now because that was not done it could get ugly for everyone.
November 26th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
wspurlock > How much per day is Lake Lanier dropping now? One inch a day? Or more or less? How much per week? Per month?
November 26th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Because of Florida being vicious about the water, which by the way they are NOT in critical need of since no drought in that state at present, their antics about mussels is pissing us off. Gov. Crist is even trying to build more power plants below Woodruff Dam/Lake Seminole that would require more of our water from Georgia. He has to be told to back off or else.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Jay — We keep an updated page with the daily loss from Lanier.
http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/lanier-status/
The last few days have seen a loss of only about a half an inch, but most days lose 1-2 inches. For a while, today looked like it might see the first GAIN in months, but it appears it will end up as a slight loss…
November 27th, 2007 at 1:02 am
Thanks mickey, so by January 1st Lake Lanier should be around 3 feet lower. That is unless heavy rain occurs. Thus it means dead pool level by about May.
November 27th, 2007 at 6:51 am
Yep. In fact, rkolter is keeping up with a page on our wiki that’s dedicated to predicting the dead pool date.
http://atlantawatershortage.com/wiki/index.php/Deadpool_predictor
Depending on which factors are used, it looks to be in either April or May.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
If they can do this in CA out of sewage water, I think the Dead Pool concerns can be handled…not sure I would want to know the origin as I was taking a sip, though.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/27/us/27conserve.html?ex=1196830800&en=31b07f93027bcff8&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY
November 27th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
The fact is that the deadpool water is being used by some municipalities already with proper treating, for drinking water. It can be used by Atlanta. They may need to update their purification system, or maybe not - they don’t pull right from the deadpool, but from downstream, and many of the bacteria in the deadpool can exist there due to a lack of oxygen - and the flow downstream rapidly oxygenates the water.
In either case, the bigger problem is just getting to the water itself - Although there would be enough for Atlanta, I doubt there’d be enough downstream for the needs of Alabama and Florida.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pm
I need an elaboration. Could you better define “deadpool water”?
I was under the impression: that it was the lowest point at which there is an outlet spout to drain the lake at - the rest of the lake below that point became “a dead pool” which does not flow. The deoxygenation and bacteria (as well as a slight salinity if we leave it long enough) are a consequence of standing water which gets progressively worse the longer the lake does not flow - the dead pool does not exist right now, and so it is impossible to ‘take water out of it’ (unless we’re talking about something like an oxbow lake).
As for grey water - there are several levels, and it’s nowhere near as filthy as you guys seem to think.
You take shower, sink, dishwasher, and laundry water (cut out whichever doesn’t work for you) and channel it into a holding tank, which you use to fill the toilet bowl and a the garden hose, if desired. NOTHING ELSE. NO PROCESSING, and NO SANITARY CONFLICTS. Toilet water gets flushed normally, to the sewer plant - it just doesn’t come into the bowl from the potable supply, it’s reused from lightly soiled water. The tank can be flushed out every few months to a septic truck, if you’re concerned about accumulating detergent + debris.
Toiletwater can account for at least 28% of daily water use, and so this is an easy way to stretch existing supplies a good 39% more days. It’s not a system which is easy to force on people, it’s a result of people SLOWLY putting improvements into their home to account for high water costs or government mandates (which will always have a grandfather clause). Which you would need for any serious adoption. It’s not a means to deal with droughts, it’s a means to deal with a dryer climate - implementation is that slow.
November 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
The Dead Pool is the water below the 1035 foot point in Lake Lanier. It gets less circulation (and even less as you go down obviously - the water at 1034 feet is much more circulated than the water at 1000 feet). The water near the bottom is in fact, more bacteria laiden and less oxygenated. It may contain more impurities (of a variety of types) as well.
It is not as the name suggests, deadly water though. It’s been certified safe by the ACE, with the possibility that it will need additional purification - technology that is commonplace, not exotic. The vision of it being the last, tar-filled, putrid, puss-swirling dredges of water is a media-driven image, not reality.
The dead pool does exist right now - it is still the water below 1035 feet, even if there’s currently 15 feet of water atop it. And there are intakes below the 1035 foot level already in use by other municipalities.
The big issue with the deadpool water is that it is below the big release valves for Buford Dam, so they can’t release a billion gallons for example. That water will have to be pumped over the dam. Once it’s on the other side it will be rapidly oxygenated in it’s ride down the riverbed, which will assist in killing of most of the excess bacteria that thrived in the oxygen poor environment of the deadpool. This won’t make it as clean as the water that came before the deadpool, but will make it cleaner than the water that is taken up already by other municipalities and purified into drinking water.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:44 am
But that’s the thing, there’s not 15 feet of water on top of it, it’s circulating and diffusing through those 15 feet as well. It’s one body of water, with reasonably continuous properties (not perfect, obviously, but there’s no saran wrap at the top of the deadpool separating it from the process of diffusion).
It’s not significantly bacteria laden / dirty / oxygen-free until you have it sitting in one place without any outflow or much circulation, a stagnant pool. At that point, when everything has settled out and there’s no turbulence in the water, things stratify vertically - all the cold water settles at the bottom, nutrients + pollution accumulates, you get algal blooms on the top, flora + fauna starts settling into a different ecosystem, et cetera.
I’m not a hydrologist, but to my knowledge this is how a lake (as opposed to a pond) works. There’s some significant vertical stratification in very deep (glacial valley) lakes which still flow, but this is a shallow manmade reservoir.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 am
To clarify - there’s always some cold, low oxygen, silty, high pollutant water at the bottom of deeper reservoirs and lakes. But the levels aren’t enough to significantly change human use - it’s practically nothing compared to what happens when all outflow stops for weeks or months.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
I’m not sure that you’re argueing a different point from me. I think we’re argueing the same point from two different angles.
I agree with you - while the very deepest water might in fact be more bacteria filled and have more pollutants, the ACE has already said the deadpool water is useable, it’s already being used by some intakes, and any needed additional cleaning is well within technical capabilities.
The definition of the deadpool water is merely that it is water below 1035 feet. It is called the deadpool because it cannot be pulled out by Buford Dam, and coincidentally, water that deep may be slightly more polluted and more bacteria laiden.
The deadpool exists, because there is water from the bottom of the lake to the top of the lake, and thus, clearly, water below the 1035 foot mark.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Or, to put it more clearly, I now realize,
“The deadpool waters are defined as all the water in Lake Lanier that exists below 1035 feet above sea level.”
You can call it the lower waters of Lake Lanier, if you prefer. Or ZippyZippyWhooPtang (although that would be silly) but it is just the name of the lower zone of water in the lake, starting at 1035 feet because that happens to be the point at which Buford Dam’s big release valves will be above the water line.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:46 pm
I can’t imagine that the situation is that serious that it would involve action by the National Guards of the three involved states. Get together to come up with a plan of action. Are the citizens of Atlanta really feeling the effects of the drought? How much of this is media hype and an attempt to create news for news sake and antagonizing relationships among the three states.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Wiki Drought History if you will. There is a long 5 century list of droughts and the associated famines, with considerable detail. How many folks know about the Chinese drought/famine in 1959? 20 MILLION died, given that china has 900 million local rural farmers. That’s like the entire state of Florida dying. How many of you watched the President of the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce go on TV and use the KATRINA impact word, in drought lingo? An aqueous chicken little? “the lake is falling the lake is falling.” Maybe. Since we have suspect government and media, only time will tell. Personal research is key prior to communicating on this site. I noticed that the AJC, which is constantly misinforming on the Georgia Drought, reported a few days ago that the clean pool in lanier had 78 days of water left. Today it was reported as 132! They said it was because of recent rain in South Ga, etc, resulting in less CORE release. As I noticed an earlier discrepancy of clean pool water from Purdue group vs the CORE (80 vs 120 days) I suspect that Purdues folks have quietly gone over to the Cores numbers…and the AJC simply bit on the Fake. Purdue is a political quack who prays when he’s behind on the action items. Well, perhaps thats too harsh. Is he chicken Biggie? haha.. We seem to have no shortage of of Greed in the City. I agree with Jay Randell who says the AJC is playing games. Ever read Machiavelli concerning public manipulation? It’s required political reading. Wiki him. On a separate note, are folks aware of the 1000 year drought going on in Australia? Google Australian drought. Their goverment recently mandated that ALL water to crops and livestock cease in 2 weeks, leaving only water for residents and businesses. They have a water basin the size of france and spain combined…and it’s going dry. There are also dangerous droughts in the Amazon (trees will die due to shallow roots) and Turkey as well. Mass migrations have occured as human cultures encountered stultifiying drought condtions in the past. One of the bloggers here said that 80% of the earth was water. Be it known that only 1% is drinkable. Savanneh is noteworthy for their $1.3 billion desalienation plant….not a bad ideas as Atlanta will probably tap their river in the future. The fella who runs the small waterfall in this blog site should be aware that all man made waterfalls and fountains are deemed illegal, due to the evaporation. Thanks to those who provided valuable information. Sorry for the long blog. Most likely my last.
Hey! Merry Xmas! Actually, let every day be XMAS.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Actually, what Georgia could use would be some good old fashioned media coverage. The potential calamity really isn’t getting the attention that it deserves.
November 29th, 2007 at 10:01 am
I’ve got an interview later today with a guy from Japan’s Mainichi news. Maybe that’ll help.
November 29th, 2007 at 11:57 am
Really? Very cool! Be sure to plug the website.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
But of course.
The interview went well. It was about 45 minutes of standard stuff: “Are people in Atlanta scared?”, ” What’s going to happen?”, “What do you think caused it?”, etc.
The only downer is that he said that while it’ll certainly be in the paper in Japan (and on their site), it probably won’t make it onto their US site. I’ll probably link to the Japanese story when it comes out, but I won’t be able to read it very well.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
You could link to a translated page via babelfish or another free translation service.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I’ll probably do something like that. That’s why I said I won’t be able to read it “very well”. If it is all in Japanese, I won’t be able to read it AT ALL.
With babelfish it’ll probably be tough to read, but at least we can have some idea of what he said.
November 30th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Charo -
Imagine an Atlanta out of water. Riots downtown, Fires with no water to put them out, buckets of sewage dumped in the streets or hallways of buildings. Sanitation nonexistant. Second buning of Atlanta with thousands dead.
I remember watching Katrina coming in and hearing about New Orleans being under sea level. This is slowly coming at us and could be as bad or a hundred times worse than Katrina was in New Orleans.
The difference is that the government has the ability to stop this disaster. Not only can they stop it, they are actively bringing it about by releasing tremendous amounts of water from Lanier to support wildlife and power generation. The priorities are backward. Human life has to come first.
November 30th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Hey Mickey -
How about a forum category for ideas to solve the problem both short term and long term? We have a lot of finger pointing but solutions are thin. I would like to hear more ideas.
November 30th, 2007 at 10:15 am
RichS - Done. Now go post in it!
November 30th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Thanks Mickey. I will post there sometime over the weekend.
December 1st, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Where is FEMA in all of this?
December 4th, 2007 at 11:19 pm
Charo - As I understand FEMA will not get involved until the area is designated as a federal disaster. Governor Purdue has requested this and it probably would have already been designated as such - but Florida and Alabama are opposing it.
I wonder if that has ever been done before where a state actually opposes a disaster being declared in another state? I certainly haven’t ever heard of it.
December 10th, 2007 at 10:26 am
I live at Jackson Lake in Newton County which is at full level, why? Not because lack of Rainfall (Drought is not the right word) Lake Jackson is full because its not being drained by rapid housing growth. It does Rain in Ga., maybe not as much as we want, this year 28 inches. The average home has at least 2000 sq. ft. roof area @ 1 inch of Rainfall this totals 1264 gals. of water could be saved. 28 inch this years rain x 1264 gals. is 35,280 gals. this year. Rain Harvesting is the answer for water conservation, this concept adds water to the economy. Rainwater is the same concept used to refill the Lakes and Reservoirs. But all home builders should be Mandated to install a Rain System for outdoor water needs Landscaping, pools, car washing, over building is the main factor of our water shortage. This would reduce 50% of Municipal water useage.
About Grey Water useage, its Illegal in Ga. Exceptions: Grey Water contains harmfull bacteria, Filter and Treat if used in open atmosphere, can only be strored for 24 hours before more treatment again, only a small amount of water is saved for toilets only, the rest is diverted back to the sewer. Who is going to monitor the treatment needed to keep water safe? This concept is nothing buy a big cost factor with no positive outcome.