New record low for Lanier
About an hour ago, Lake Lanier reached its lowest level since it was first created in the 1950’s.
The previous low of 1052.66 feet was set in December, 1981. As of right now, the lake is sitting at 1052.64 feet.
We’ve still got about 17 feet to go until the “dead pool” at 1035 feet, but we continue to move in that direction. CBS News had a recent story about what it would mean for us in terms of purification if we reach that level.
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November 19th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
I drove to Lake Lanier on Sunday to see it for myself and the water level was way lower than I expected. The boat ramps were all closed, because the concrete ramps no longer reached down into the lake. Water was gushing out of the powerhouse channel down the river. The lake will be empty by summer and those of us still living in Atlanta drinking the poisoned dregs of dead pool.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:30 am
From the article: “The city will go after the water no matter how far the lake recedes,” said Jonathon Heard, the city’s director of utilities. “We intend to provide water for the citizens of this area, whatever it takes.”
I feel like this is the exact wrong attitude to have; it’s like checking for gold fillings in the mouth of a corpse. The lake is dead for all practical purposes. We must focus our efforts on transporting usable water into the city via road, rail and air. We must especially isolate and prioritize water for fire prevention. I can do without water to drink from the tap. I can do without having water during certain times of the day for everything else. I cannot do without the safety of my person, home and business left to the risk of fire.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:40 am
Are the any ground or geologic water resources available?
November 20th, 2007 at 3:33 am
Atlantan:
In a recent Creative Loafing article “What Happens if the Water Tap Goes Dry?”, Janet Ward of the Atlanta Dept of Watershed Management remarked:
“I can tell you that if we didn’t have water, there’s every reason to believe you would see a second burning of Atlanta”
I can see this happening pretty quickly, myself. There are some serious poverty issues and seething racial tension in the heart of the city that are just waiting for a spark to set the whole place ablaze. I live in Grant Park/Cabbagetown, and I’m keenly aware of my vulnerable position; if this situation gets even to a rationing stage, I’m heading for wetter ground. The Pacific Northwest looks nice…
November 20th, 2007 at 4:53 am
Has anyone spoken with Kentucky officials? I am in TN but there is a dam that they say may or may not break flooding the area- I am neither a meterologist nor a geologist, but short term solution that may help, what about negotiating with them to take the pressure off the dam by bringing some of that water (pumper trucks??? ) to GA ? Seems to me that might help both parties…
November 20th, 2007 at 7:52 am
Congrats on the record. Is there a way you can have the most often water source info linked from the main page? Example, Like where you have been getting the lake levels.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ga/nwis/uv?cb_00062=on&format=html&period=3&site_no=02334400
Data has been quite good on this blog. Happy Thanksgiving!
November 20th, 2007 at 7:59 am
The problem with using ground water directly is that first, you’re in a drought - the water table is lower than normal. Second, that’s a LOT of water you are sucking down, and you are near the ocean (geographically speaking) - salt water encroachment into the water table is a serious issue.
Pump trucks wouldn’t help the dam in TN - at 18,000 liters a truck, you’d need, give or take, about a hundred thousand such trucks a day to keep Atlanta hydrated. These are big numbers.
Now, a pipe - we’ve talked about that. It’s inelegant, but probably possible, although there are other short term water sources Atlanta could pipe from that are nearer.
November 20th, 2007 at 10:36 am
I remember the drought in the early 80s. We were in North Carolina for the summer and the lakes were very low. We went to a rope swing next to a dam and it was like 50 feet lower than normal. I almost didn’t swing far enough out to reach the lake.
But, Atlanta is like a train wreck out of control.
The entire region is low on water. They don’t want Atlanta sucking them dry also. Then say to hell with your economy and to hell with all your endangered wildlife.
That’s why I was saying Georgia needs to be more responsible with it’s water policy.
November 20th, 2007 at 11:00 am
That makes sense Atlantian. They should save enough for the fire department, police, national guard, army, etc.
The drinking water will have to be trucked in.
A lot of cites suffer though hurricanes and earthquakes.
I went though a cat 4 and didn’t have electricity for a month.
They should be planning all of this out, instead of all this hysteria.
New Orleans was the same way. “the hurrican’s always hit Florida, not us!”
November 20th, 2007 at 11:21 am
rkolter,
I doubt it’s possible to pump that much water any time soon.
Look at how long it took New Orleans to pump out that water with the biggest pumps in the world.
Any solution is not going to be a quick fix.
Educated people will need to resolve the issues or it will just make the problem worse.
November 20th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Here is an interesting report that catalogs all of the water systems and their allowed withdrawals from the surface and ground water resources across north Georgia. It’s interesting how many towns, counties, etc have agreements to buy water from Atlanta during peak demand. There is a lot of interconnection between the systems.
http://www.northgeorgiawater.com/files/WSWC_Task4.pdf
All of the withdrawals authorized from Lake Lanier and the Chattahoochee River total 711 Million Gallons per Day, or by my math, 1,100 Cubic Feet/Second. Assuming around 4 million people get their water out of this basin, that’s about 175 gallons per day per person (includes industrial, golf course, car washes, etc as well as home use)
Now, presumably, with the restrictions in place, a lot less than that is required to fill the pipes of the various towns, counties, and utility districts.
Current inflow into Lake Lanier is about 250 CF/S. So, assuming input = output on the day the lake runs dry, something on the order of 75 percent of maximum demand will be unmet. Hummmmm.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
I lived in Japan in 1978/79. There was a severe drought so they moved to a full emergency mode for several monrths before the rainy season came back. They had a plan and followed it before it was too late.
1. Domestic water utilities were turned on several hours during the day only. (Firefighting water is on a different system and they use ‘grey water’ for industry.)
2. Went OFF completely at about 9PM til about 7AM (Japanese people bath every night so they reorganized and stop staying out late. It killed the nightlife businesses.)
3. It worked, nobody suffered and they dealt with it. It was hard to cheat.
Atlanta will try water restrictions and cahase the cheaters. The next stages wil be very unpleasant and the entilted suburbs will experience a actual deprivation for the first time. What I learned in Japan was water and energy are NOT free entitlements. Water is heavy and hard to transport if is not flowing downhill towrds you already.
My take is that the resevour system in the two lakes is 50 years old. Atlanta has been living off a 50 year old investment and the buffer capacity (over investment by the now deceased generation) has been exceeded. Now GA is faced with a short term crisis ‘water now’ that will consume the money that could have been invested in a new long term capacity for the next generation. Good luck with that, current politics are all about undertaxtion and underinvestment.
Perhaps we could contract with Hallibuton!
November 20th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Scott -
Are your numbers taking into account the water that is returned as treated / purified sewage? Not arguing - just a question.
DC - your political jab aside, what good does it do to argue about things that should have been done twenty years ago? Actually Georgia tried to add some reservoir capacity in the 80’s including an inter-basin transfer. Alabama opposed it though the net effect would have been balanced in that state. Florida opposed it based on concerns for too high water flow.
Anyway, that’s old news. Today we need a short term solution to head off a crisis. The ONLY short term solution is to decrease water flow out of Lanier which is artificially keeping the river full downstream. The “minimum” flow rate to Florida is set at a very optimistic 5000 CF/S. Scott posted above that 250 CF/S is coming into Lanier. That’s a 20 to one ratio. Completely unsupportable when the lake is at a record low and dropping almost a foot a week.
A long term solution is important and needs to be addressed, but we have to stop the bleeding first. It looks like most of the people talking about long term solutions are just finger pointing anyway. Not trying to head off the crisis.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Perhaps a massive emergency contract with Halliburton was the idea all along. Who could possibly oppose any amount when the alternative is no water in the pipes? I’ve avoided political comments ’til now, but this IS the logical outcome of Republicanism. Declare government the problem, not the solution, govern poorly to prove your declaration, and then when it all falls apart, shovel a bunch of the middle class’ money to your crony contractors to create a stop gap to solve the crisis that was the inevitable, if not intended outcome of your malfeasance. A nice fat contract to Blackwater to maintain the “peace” in Atlanta will likely be thrown in for good measure.
Then, once you have made it through the crisis, there is another round of contracts to create a “private, free market” solution to the problem Republicanism created in the first place. Privatize the whole system as the preferred final solution.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Ugh. Again -
Georgia has had democratic governors since 1877 with the sole exception of Sonny in 2003. Atlanta has had democratic Mayors since the 1960’s including the incumbent.
Frameing this in the context of the current Presidential party affiliation does no good and really frameing it in a political context has no effective point other than to detract from the actual problem.
Pointing fingers, correctly or incorrectly isn’t going to keep water in the water lines people. Vent your anger at our president in some other forum.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Rich,
Those numbers don’t count any return to the system from treated waste or other pass-throughs, e.g., water for cooling that’s returned immediately, just warmer. There is a discussion of the proportion of water returned to the river vs. water that is lost in the reference cited. Lost water is evaporated for cooling, shipped out of the watershed, used in lawn watering (none of that now), and similar uses. Septic systems are the biggest destroyer of water, apparently around 20 percent of the metro still is on septic instead of central wastewater treatment. You are correct that most water is returned to the river via the waste treatment process.
That said, if the “used” water is placed back in the system below where the water is taken out, each user only gets one crack at the water entering the system. That’s the 250 CFS that runs into the lake. City of Atlanta is the biggest single user, licensed to pull 180 MGD, or 278 CFS. So, the City of Atlanta alone is licensed to pull more water out of the river faster than it runs in (unless there are enough tributaries below the dam to make up the difference, which there may be). The river runs to the Atlanta intake, 100 percent of the river is pulled from its banks and runs through the city, and some 80 percent of it returns to the channel at the Atlanta waste water treatment facility.
Again, I’m sure with conservation, Atlanta is not pulling it’s full entitlement out of the river. Still, with other users, etc., it’s pretty tough to make the math work.
I honestly don’t know what the solution is in a short time frame. In a long time frame, I think it’s where you are suggesting. Composting toilets, recirculating water systems, and high-tech rainwater capture technologies may all play a part.
Remembering that we are all in this together, the only solution is to all work together, and making sure everybody gets what they need, which may not be what they want, will obviously play a part.
Best regards,
Scott
November 20th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Honestly I think the long term solution is to look at water the way a free market business would. If I were king -
1. I would put in place a plan to bring in more water. Desalinization plant and pipeline, or pipeline from the Tenessee River seem to be the two realistic possibilities. They will both be ridiculously expensive so we have to make that money somewhere. So I recommend….
2. Raise water rates (not sure what is paid now, but it is minimal and could be increased probably tenfold or more) to communities or businesses who take water out of the lake or river. The rates will get passed along to their customers. It’s a supply and demand problem. Too much demand too little supply. The free market deals with that by raising prices until demand drops or the price is high enough to find new sources to fill the supply need.
3. In addition to charging for communities and businesses that remove water, there would need to be some charge also to anyone who demands “flow” even if they don’t use it. i.e. if Florida thinks they need 5000cf/m then Florida gets to pay for whatever nature wouldn’t provide normally - just like all the other water users. I suspect some of those demands would go away pretty quickly if they were paying market price.
So yes Scott - there is a free market solution and government could be considered the problem because as usual government tries to ignore the laws of supply and demand.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
Interesting Scott -
I did not know that Atlanta runs the entire river through it’s pipes and returns 80% back out. Probably not a terribly useful piece of information on it’s own, but certainly interesting.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
How about that aquarium? That was a fantastic idea. It goes through 160million gallons in 6months (or so I have read on the net). This attraction, plus the restaurants in Atlanta (I am a PT chef, you would be amazed at how much water restaurants use), will kill off the rest of the supply. As long as Shirly and the city council are in intact, and politicians they could care less about the rest of you. I would make this suggestion…..MOVE! I spoke to my first Atlanta transplant from The ATL. She moved where I live do to the water! America…..where animals have more rights than people!
November 20th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I’d like to see a link to that aquarium stat. While they certainly use a good bit of water, I doubt it’s anywhere that high. Their tanks, while massive, only hold about 8.1 million gallons and all of that is in a closed loop.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Trebor, answer me this: Why should animals suffer because some slobs and their shitty governments (Democans and Republicrats) can’t seem to come up with a reasonable water usage plan? … and yes I live in Atlanta and I know how bad the government is and the corporations who own it. The funny thing about the propaganda coming out of the governors office — they often seem to “forget” to note that the water coming from Lake Lanier is needed also for the POWER PLANTS downstream. All I’ve seen Sonny Perdue do is pray for rain and blame the environmental protection act, why doesn’t he have a realistic contingency plan?
November 20th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
sorry… endangered species act
November 20th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Andrew -
I’m not a Purdue fan, but this problem has been 20 years in the making. There isn’t much of a contingency plan that can be created in the middle of the crisis. The reason the mussels are getting so much attention is that right now they are the limiting factor. If not for the EPD, we could work out a reasonable plan for sharing the water. Right now the mussels trump all. The mussels are the reason for the 5000 cf/s minimum, and the reason the 16% flow reduction that three governers agreed to has now turned into a measly 5%. This crisis is too big to be solved with a 5% reduction anywhere.
If the mussels were going to die out because of low water flow they would have already died without our intervention purely because of lack of rain. That’s nature. 99% of all the species that have ever walked the earth are now extinct. Humans can’t stop this trend any more than they can make it rain.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
I apologize it’s “The Aquarium uses about four million gallons a month” times 6 that’s 24million gallons. Sorry. I got this stat from the This Is Atlanta news site. Still when you got 17feet left to dead pool, 24million in 6months is a HUGE chunk.
t
November 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I will tell you what scares me it this, if this is a mini dust bowl drought of the 1930’s. If this part of the country is just “do” for something like this….it could be years before you cats see “serious” rain. Here is some advice too, if you wanna know just “how bad it’s getting?” watch the mexicans! When they start moving….it’s time to vacate the city! LOL
They have a nose for trouble! 
November 20th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I realize all that and I’m not actually a rabid environmentalist, but I can’t stand that claim that the “animals get more rights that people”. I note the car washes are still open… are we saying that our clean cars are more important than permanently sending the mussels to extinction? All summer long I watched as the city of Atlanta had its watering restrictions put in place for us homeowners but any for commercial business was exempt.
I know this has been 20 years in the making, I was just talking to someone here who said when she was as student at GT back in 1985 they were saying how this would be a problem (and then they underestimated the population growth of ATL anyway). But, there are still a lot of missed opportunities and they’ve been screwing it up all summer. Why haven’t they looked at groundwater? There should be plenty of water for a crisis, why aren’t they drilling?
November 20th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I’m all for shutting down carwashes, commercial watering like golf courses, etc, agricultural irrigation, probably most everything else you can think of that will keep us from running out of water. Luckily I am not a farmer, don’t own a carwash or golf course. The people who do are going to get hit disproportionately. It’s unfortunate but there is no culprit - just a lack of rain.
But if we did all that it would still just be a drop in the bucket even compared to the tiny 5% reduction we have in the downstream flow. What we are talking about with conservation is not much more than a symbolic gesture. The real issue is the lake can’t keep the river full. It can smooth out highs and lows but it can’t keep it full for an extended drought.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
I’m not a biologist, although I would like to learn more about the policy for determining Lake Lanier outflow.
I would assume the outflow will continue to be decreased. It is at %5 and will soon be at %10.
They should be trying to emulate drought conditions and maintain the downstream as natural as possible.
There has been so much misinformation and hostility, and this reckless policy to amend the ESA, that I think it has done a disservice to those trying to find a more responsible solution.
Perhaps they should have started the reduction process sooner?
At any rate, I still stand by my statement that all states need to get together and establish what the capacity is during droughts to ensure the proper balance.
At this point the minimum flow rate and the draw from North Georgia appears to be excessive for the lakes capacity. But, I’m not a biologist and don’t have any hard numbers with so much misinformation.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I have to disagree, Rich S, that water conservation is a “symbolic gesture”. I was down in Atlanta, and something which is standard in Europe in hotels was not seen at all at my hotel — instructions to hang up towels if you don’t want them laundered. Even when I hung them up, I STILL got fresh new towels the next day. A TOTAL waste, and frankly showed that Atlanta metro, both publicly and privately, remains wholly unserious faced with the drought crisis.
On both a short term and a long term basis, water conservation is just as key as securing water storage. On a short term basis, water conservation BUYS TIME, when rain could come. Would you rather run out of water sooner or later? Would you like to run out of water for a couple of weeks before rain suddenly comes? Well, then keep talking like Perdue does about how irrelevant water conservation is. On a long term basis, the amount of water saved is ENORMOUS. So if people get into the habit of conserving water now, then the next drought crisis will not be as taxing on the water supply (especially if more resevoirs are built). Finally, water conservation (and as is posted above this post, electricity conservation which also saves water) is about getting citizens involved. Once they get involved on an individual basis, that makes them more aware of the environment around them, and will lead them to insist that their elected officials draw up plans to deal with water scarcity on a long term basis, and kick out the ones who don’t “get it”.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Here’s a quote from this article up:
So it’s not the animals versus the people. A healthy ecosystem, which high flow rates provide, also ensure a good quality of life for people and jobs for other people like fishermen and the tourism industry. It’s true that the flow is being regulated by the Fish and Wildlife service under the Endangered Species Act, but it’s not true that the only creatures that the flow decision will affect are animals, people in Florida will be affected too. It’s true that it’s much less easy to point to a given fisherman and say, he lost his job because ATL needs car washes, but it does happen nonetheless. What sets me off is the right-wing tedency to make political hay out of this crisis by claiming in effect that the wacky liberals are the only ones separating ATL and “its” water. The endangered species act does much more good than harm and is not something to be set aside lightly.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
beachmom -
I honestly don’t disagree with most of what you are saying. I am just looking at numbers of where the bulk of the water is going. When I see 90 percent or more of the water going downstream and eventually flushing through into the ocean that is the part of the problem I want to attack. Yes we can look at the other ten percent that is being used. Maybe we can reduce that ten percent by 1/3. That is actually pretty good. Using my numbers which I am admittedly guestimating (probably high) we are talking in the range of 3% that can be saved through conservation.
So I’m not saying that 3% isn’t worthwhile - just maybe a little too much energy is being expended on that part of the equation.
JohnC - you’re sounding kind of reasonable today. Are you feeling ok? Lol.
November 20th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Trebor -
4 million gallons a month is equal to 2.88 seconds of flow on any given day.
2 billion gallons a day / (4 million gallons a month /30) / (12 hours * 60 min * 60 sec)
In 6 months, that’s about 7 minutes of flow time.
While I agree that conservation is critical in Atlanta, I suspect that the already highly conserving, economically valuable aquarium is worth the cost of an additional seven minutes of buffer in the lake over six months.
November 20th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
Rkolter - I will add that the the trememdous bulk of whatever water the aquarium is “using” is almost certainly being returned downstream as treated sewage. There would have been a considerable water use initially to fill the tanks, but that was a one time use when the situation was better. I doubt that on an ongoing basis it has any more impact than a typical golf course watering it’s greens.
Andrew - no one wants the fishermen to lose their jobs. But I don’t think they are really any more important than the landscapers and such around Atlanta which are losing their jobs. It’s sad, but their industries are dependant on water which mother nature isn’t currently providing. I think we need to be in crisis mode and that means when we are weighing a few jobs against a few million or billion gallons of water, right now conservation of the water is more important.
November 20th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
This whole man vs mussels thing is counter productive.
I just think the proper balance needs to be recognized for everyone’s benefit.
A river system can only provide so much water for human consumption during droughts. Ensuring that the natural environment is also sustained by minimum flow rates should not have a negative impact on consumption.
I would assume North Georgia has the highest consumption rate out of all three states.
So that means less can be withdrawn downstream.
If consumption is higher than what is available then that means you have exceeded the limits and are out of water. The city’s don’t have water, the enviroment dies off, etc.
In the event that lake Lanier runs real low, a trickle should remain going downstream. As well as some water for fighting fires, etc.
It also appears the outflow reduction process should have started sooner.
November 20th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Using the numbers here, North Georgia uses close to 1/3 of the average water released from the lake.
Those numbers were from 2003. Have the withdraw gone up since then?
November 20th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Question: How many power plants share this same source? Are there any other reservoirs downstream that share this source?
I found the comment from that the local gov’t used last month basically stating “heck with wildlife, we must save the water for the people” Unethical and total irresponsibility on solving the true problem. The whole issue that outflows should reflect the “natural order of the river during a drought” when the lake itself is unnatural is also irresponsible.
As a person that lives outside of the area effected and not hearing a word of this SE drought on the local news, people will respond the same way as Katrina did to New Orleans. “Let the mississippi take back what it was suppose to have” People in the U.S. will probably say “I knew ATL was growing too fast and the sprawl would catch up with them, now we have to pay for their mistakes.”
If help doesn’t come from above, then the american will help (if we want to or not). So, drink up!
November 20th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Yeah yeah yeah what to say what to do ….One thing our so-called Informed media and Local Atlanta news channels and papers aint talking about the unpleasantness of dealing with Dreaded Human waste and treatment of …. i mean will there be sickness and Germs coming from not being able to keep moving it along ….i have an 8 th Grade edu .and live florida and have been following the drought closely ….seems to me people are just in such Deep Denial about running out of water for real ….again ….what to say what to do ….
November 20th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
CbusIslander,
What you have here is classic case of tri-polar disorder between GA, FL, and AL.
States like Georgia with big cities up stream make their calculations during normal rain and exclude neighboring states from the process.
The lake can supply more water to everyone but there has to be the proper ballance.
It’s a gradual process so that the wildlife can adjust. So, the outflow has to adjust to the climate conditions.
If the three states could reach an agreement then it would go a long way to finding the right balance. Right now the Fish and Wildlife department can’t calculate when the lake could go dry and there is no input from the three states affected because they can ‘t reach an agreement.
Georgia’s anti-environment policy and disregard for it’s neighbors has a significant impact on maintining the river basin. If they can’t cooperate then various deaprtments of the federal government has to do the best they can based on the laws they have to work under.
I think this has led to the excessive outflow and excessive consumption placed on Lanier for such an exceptional drought.
November 20th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
A lot of good insights on usage and flow in this thread. Any one want to participate in “dead pool” wagering for the date and time when Lanier reaches 1035?
November 21st, 2007 at 8:15 am
You can expect fire hydrants to be knocked over in search of water……..just the way some people are nowadays.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:15 am
It’s the power plants that require that much water. They (as well as factories) also discharge hot water and other waste that has to be assimilated back into the river basin.
A lot of the hot water also evaporates which isn’t even factored into the equation.
Now you can understand some of the frustration of other states.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I am just curious. No one sites the growth in Atlanta as a cause? The restaraunts tripling, I work in one PT, they waste ALLOT of water, plus the people to work these places, mainly immigrants, who bring whole families? No one thinks the population growth has something to do with it? The housing market booming (now slumping), and the people to build those houses, again immigrants into Atlanta.
I am sorry, but I do not think Lake Laneir was built to support a New York city of the south.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Piggy backing on that, Atlanta is in the top 5 HOT BED cities for immgrants to move too, according to hispanic news sources.
r
November 21st, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Here is Alabama’s response:
They claim to have started conservation last spring while Georgia didn’t start until September. Yet, Perdue and others around here say Alabama didn’t conserve.
http://www.wsbtv.com/drought/14466766/detail.html
Also, Alabama claims it’s power plants are at minimum operating level.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14375192/detail.html
“There are provisions in the Endangered Species Act for emergency relief in these situations,” said Rob Holland with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
But until Thursday, (October 22) the Army Corps of Engineers had not asked for an emergency exception to that law.
Channel 2 asked why the Corps didn’t ask for an emergency (from ESA) exemption sooner. The answer? No one expected the drought to get so bad so quickly.”
“In hindsight it probably should have been started earlier but hindsight is 20-20,” said Holland.
(So now Georgia wants to challenge the ESA because it didn’t request an exemption sooner? hmm)
November 21st, 2007 at 9:48 pm
It’s occurred to me recently that the Endangered Species Act requirements in Florida have only taken center stage in the debate because it represents the only binding water contract between the tri-states during this crisis.
Florida and Alabama are campaigning for the lives of shellfish merely because this is the basis of a federal law that keeps water flowing towards them to serve myriad other purposes, not the least of which includes cooling power plants for many of their residents. It’s simply the easiest argument to make during this crisis, when negotiations for a permanent operations plan have stalled in legal proceedings spanning two decades.
Sonny Perdue has latched onto the mussels issue with a spin to suit his own interests. The underlying fact remains the same: the Corps are bound by federal law to ensure a specific amount of water reaches Florida, and it is only by this rubric (under an Interim Operations Plan) that they are managing Lanier’s water. The ongoing stalemate in the water war has finally caught up with the parties involved in the worst way. The inability of these states to reach a consensus is just another factor in the overall water management negligence that is chiefly responsible for the current crisis.
-st
November 21st, 2007 at 10:55 pm
They claim to have started conservation last spring while Georgia didn’t start until September.
This is a total mischaracterization. I know - shocking that a politician would do that huh?
North Georgia has had a partial watering ban in place for years. September is when a complete watering ban went into effect (for homeowners anyway). I have no information that Alabama has followed suit. When I google Alabama watering ban, I get a few hits about a city here or there, and an equal number talking about Alabama’s lack of a watering ban such as this one.
http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2007/10/30/alawater_1031.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13.com
(So now Georgia wants to challenge the ESA because it didn’t request an exemption sooner? hmm)
It’s not that Georgia wasn’t requesting this sooner. The Corps of Engineers wasn’t. Georgia has been begging, pleading, falling on deaf ears for some time.
Everyone has a right to his own opinion just not a right to his own set of facts.
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:04 am
My uncle lives in Charlotte and they have had a complete watering ban for a long time. (last spring) They also have a lot more water than Atlanta.
Georgia didn’t request a reduction in lake flow until October 12th.
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14362968/detail.html
I would be asking why this wasn’t done sooner. They could have filed for an exemption from the ESA, and been granted one a long time ago. The Sierra Club even suggested doing so.
The ACE said they started the reduction process too late.
http://www.wsbtv.com/drought/14371964/detail.html
Can you please show me where Georgia requested an exemption from the ESA or requested a reduction in release before October 12th.
If not he has no reason to blame anyone but himself.
Purdue still scoffs at conservation. I guess Georgia knows something North Carolina doesn’t?
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
I’m looking deeper at the Interim Operations Plan and water wars… it appears I was mistaken in understanding how the outflows are regulated — the IOP was set up under a 1989 draft plan rather than through the ESA:
“The Corps’ ACF reservoirs were currently being operated to provide a release of approximately 5,000 cfs out of Woodruff into the Apalachicola River in accordance with the Corps’ Interim Operating Plan(“IOP”). The IOP is based on operations required under the Corps’ draft 1989 Water Control Plan for the ACF Basin. 5,000 cfs is also needed from Woodruff in order to ensure adequate flows at Gulf Power’s Plant Scholz downstream”
Anyone know of a good resource for learning the history of ACF basin management / water-wars?
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Google for “ACF basin management / water-wars”. There’s a lot of information, especially in PDF format. “http://nespal.cpes.peachnet.edu/waterissues/act_acf.htm” looks like a good place to start. Also “http://www.alabamarivers.org/River%20Resources/water-wars/water-wars-background” and “http://www.alabamarivers.org/current-work/water-wars/comments-of-the-tristate-conservation-coalition”.
This PDF file, “http://www.law.uga.edu/news/advocate/spring2007/waterwars.pdf”, is more recent.
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:02 pm
Found this helpful PDF — well worth a read:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:SZhFQTvV8lUJ:www.fws.gov/southeast/ACF-QAs-FWS-10-12-07.pdf+5,000+cfs+mussels&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:58 pm
JohnC please read the last paragraph here -
http://www.gov.state.ga.us/press/2007/press1574.shtml
There have been numerous calls to slow releases for the last two years. All opposed by Florida and Alabama. It seems one day you argue for more water to be sent downstream and the next day you call for less. As long as you can demonize Georgia or Atlanta you will take up the argument. Why such hate for Atlanta?
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:29 pm
I think I have figured it out John - you have to really demonize a group of people when you are saying their lives are worth less than some oysters and mussels.
November 25th, 2007 at 12:28 am
Didn’t we make an agreement?
November 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
JohnC -
You’re right - we are never going to agree so I’m done with you also.
…
RichS, If you read a few articles back the author of this website said, Atlanta failed miserably to plan for this drought, yet you didn’t post anything there? In fact a lot more individuals have raised concerns than me.
That’s why I conclued that you and others have a personal issue with me that is not related with the drought.
This will be my last post to the website.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
This water problem is a serious mismanagment problem of the lakes and rivers natural water sheds. Shipping lanes in rivers and the great lakes and other lakes are creating this mess. Keep on dreaging deeper and divererting more water from elsewhwere will only quicken the loss of all of our freshwater in North America! All this water is just flowing quicker to the oceans. These water shortages in Atlanta are not isolated, its happening everywhere, to the great lakes as well. The lake levels are down 20 feet from 13 years ago. I went to go swim at Dorcus Bay Lake Huron first time in 13 years and it is now gone! Just a giant beach remains. You have to walk out a mile to get to water. We should now realize that population in some areas of North America are to large for the land to support. This extra water needed should be coming from the oceans. Set up desalination plants and make usable water and use locks and dams to stop premature water shedding, because if we continue on our current course, mark my words, America will be a desert waste land within a decade.