Comments on: New record low for Lanier http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/ Keeping you informed about the Georgia drought. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:56:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Chris G http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-1266 Chris G Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:02:44 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-1266 This water problem is a serious mismanagment problem of the lakes and rivers natural water sheds. Shipping lanes in rivers and the great lakes and other lakes are creating this mess. Keep on dreaging deeper and divererting more water from elsewhwere will only quicken the loss of all of our freshwater in North America! All this water is just flowing quicker to the oceans. These water shortages in Atlanta are not isolated, its happening everywhere, to the great lakes as well. The lake levels are down 20 feet from 13 years ago. I went to go swim at Dorcus Bay Lake Huron first time in 13 years and it is now gone! Just a giant beach remains. You have to walk out a mile to get to water. We should now realize that population in some areas of North America are to large for the land to support. This extra water needed should be coming from the oceans. Set up desalination plants and make usable water and use locks and dams to stop premature water shedding, because if we continue on our current course, mark my words, America will be a desert waste land within a decade. This water problem is a serious mismanagment problem of the lakes and rivers natural water sheds. Shipping lanes in rivers and the great lakes and other lakes are creating this mess. Keep on dreaging deeper and divererting more water from elsewhwere will only quicken the loss of all of our freshwater in North America! All this water is just flowing quicker to the oceans. These water shortages in Atlanta are not isolated, its happening everywhere, to the great lakes as well. The lake levels are down 20 feet from 13 years ago. I went to go swim at Dorcus Bay Lake Huron first time in 13 years and it is now gone! Just a giant beach remains. You have to walk out a mile to get to water. We should now realize that population in some areas of North America are to large for the land to support. This extra water needed should be coming from the oceans. Set up desalination plants and make usable water and use locks and dams to stop premature water shedding, because if we continue on our current course, mark my words, America will be a desert waste land within a decade.

]]> By: JohnC http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-1038 JohnC Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:28:50 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-1038 Didn't we make an agreement? November 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm JohnC - You’re right - we are never going to agree so I’m done with you also. … RichS, If you read a few articles back the author of this website said, Atlanta failed miserably to plan for this drought, yet you didn't post anything there? In fact a lot more individuals have raised concerns than me. That's why I conclued that you and others have a personal issue with me that is not related with the drought. This will be my last post to the website. Didn’t we make an agreement?

November 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm

JohnC -

You’re right - we are never going to agree so I’m done with you also.

…

RichS, If you read a few articles back the author of this website said, Atlanta failed miserably to plan for this drought, yet you didn’t post anything there? In fact a lot more individuals have raised concerns than me.

That’s why I conclued that you and others have a personal issue with me that is not related with the drought.

This will be my last post to the website.

]]> By: richs http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-999 richs Sat, 24 Nov 2007 01:29:40 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-999 I think I have figured it out John - you have to really demonize a group of people when you are saying their lives are worth less than some oysters and mussels. I think I have figured it out John - you have to really demonize a group of people when you are saying their lives are worth less than some oysters and mussels.

]]> By: richs http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-979 richs Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:58:20 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-979 JohnC please read the last paragraph here - http://www.gov.state.ga.us/press/2007/press1574.shtml There have been numerous calls to slow releases for the last two years. All opposed by Florida and Alabama. It seems one day you argue for more water to be sent downstream and the next day you call for less. As long as you can demonize Georgia or Atlanta you will take up the argument. Why such hate for Atlanta? JohnC please read the last paragraph here -
http://www.gov.state.ga.us/press/2007/press1574.shtml

There have been numerous calls to slow releases for the last two years. All opposed by Florida and Alabama. It seems one day you argue for more water to be sent downstream and the next day you call for less. As long as you can demonize Georgia or Atlanta you will take up the argument. Why such hate for Atlanta?

]]> By: ST http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-937 ST Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:02:36 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-937 Found this helpful PDF -- well worth a read: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:SZhFQTvV8lUJ:www.fws.gov/southeast/ACF-QAs-FWS-10-12-07.pdf+5,000+cfs+mussels&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a Found this helpful PDF — well worth a read:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:SZhFQTvV8lUJ:www.fws.gov/southeast/ACF-QAs-FWS-10-12-07.pdf+5,000+cfs+mussels&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=us&client=firefox-a

]]> By: GThierry http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-936 GThierry Thu, 22 Nov 2007 19:00:12 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-936 Google for "ACF basin management / water-wars". There's a lot of information, especially in PDF format. "http://nespal.cpes.peachnet.edu/waterissues/act_acf.htm" looks like a good place to start. Also "http://www.alabamarivers.org/River%20Resources/water-wars/water-wars-background" and "http://www.alabamarivers.org/current-work/water-wars/comments-of-the-tristate-conservation-coalition". This PDF file, "http://www.law.uga.edu/news/advocate/spring2007/waterwars.pdf", is more recent. Google for “ACF basin management / water-wars”. There’s a lot of information, especially in PDF format. “http://nespal.cpes.peachnet.edu/waterissues/act_acf.htm” looks like a good place to start. Also “http://www.alabamarivers.org/River%20Resources/water-wars/water-wars-background” and “http://www.alabamarivers.org/current-work/water-wars/comments-of-the-tristate-conservation-coalition”.
This PDF file, “http://www.law.uga.edu/news/advocate/spring2007/waterwars.pdf”, is more recent.

]]> By: ST http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-935 ST Thu, 22 Nov 2007 18:21:31 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-935 I'm looking deeper at the Interim Operations Plan and water wars... it appears I was mistaken in understanding how the outflows are regulated -- the IOP was set up under a 1989 draft plan rather than through the ESA: "The Corps’ ACF reservoirs were currently being operated to provide a release of approximately 5,000 cfs out of Woodruff into the Apalachicola River in accordance with the Corps’ Interim Operating Plan(“IOP”). The IOP is based on operations required under the Corps’ draft 1989 Water Control Plan for the ACF Basin. 5,000 cfs is also needed from Woodruff in order to ensure adequate flows at Gulf Power’s Plant Scholz downstream" Anyone know of a good resource for learning the history of ACF basin management / water-wars? I’m looking deeper at the Interim Operations Plan and water wars… it appears I was mistaken in understanding how the outflows are regulated — the IOP was set up under a 1989 draft plan rather than through the ESA:

“The Corps’ ACF reservoirs were currently being operated to provide a release of approximately 5,000 cfs out of Woodruff into the Apalachicola River in accordance with the Corps’ Interim Operating Plan(“IOP”). The IOP is based on operations required under the Corps’ draft 1989 Water Control Plan for the ACF Basin. 5,000 cfs is also needed from Woodruff in order to ensure adequate flows at Gulf Power’s Plant Scholz downstream”

Anyone know of a good resource for learning the history of ACF basin management / water-wars?

]]> By: JohnC http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-926 JohnC Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:04:09 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-926 My uncle lives in Charlotte and they have had a complete watering ban for a long time. (last spring) They also have a lot more water than Atlanta. Georgia didn't request a reduction in lake flow until October 12th. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14362968/detail.html I would be asking why this wasn't done sooner. They could have filed for an exemption from the ESA, and been granted one a long time ago. The Sierra Club even suggested doing so. The ACE said they started the reduction process too late. http://www.wsbtv.com/drought/14371964/detail.html Can you please show me where Georgia requested an exemption from the ESA or requested a reduction in release before October 12th. If not he has no reason to blame anyone but himself. Purdue still scoffs at conservation. I guess Georgia knows something North Carolina doesn't? My uncle lives in Charlotte and they have had a complete watering ban for a long time. (last spring) They also have a lot more water than Atlanta.

Georgia didn’t request a reduction in lake flow until October 12th.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/14362968/detail.html

I would be asking why this wasn’t done sooner. They could have filed for an exemption from the ESA, and been granted one a long time ago. The Sierra Club even suggested doing so.

The ACE said they started the reduction process too late.

http://www.wsbtv.com/drought/14371964/detail.html

Can you please show me where Georgia requested an exemption from the ESA or requested a reduction in release before October 12th.

If not he has no reason to blame anyone but himself.

Purdue still scoffs at conservation. I guess Georgia knows something North Carolina doesn’t?

]]> By: richs http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-909 richs Thu, 22 Nov 2007 03:55:00 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-909 They claim to have started conservation last spring while Georgia didn’t start until September. This is a total mischaracterization. I know - shocking that a politician would do that huh? North Georgia has had a partial watering ban in place for years. September is when a complete watering ban went into effect (for homeowners anyway). I have no information that Alabama has followed suit. When I google Alabama watering ban, I get a few hits about a city here or there, and an equal number talking about Alabama's lack of a watering ban such as this one. http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2007/10/30/alawater_1031.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13.com (So now Georgia wants to challenge the ESA because it didn’t request an exemption sooner? hmm) It's not that Georgia wasn't requesting this sooner. The Corps of Engineers wasn't. Georgia has been begging, pleading, falling on deaf ears for some time. Everyone has a right to his own opinion just not a right to his own set of facts. They claim to have started conservation last spring while Georgia didn’t start until September.

This is a total mischaracterization. I know - shocking that a politician would do that huh?

North Georgia has had a partial watering ban in place for years. September is when a complete watering ban went into effect (for homeowners anyway). I have no information that Alabama has followed suit. When I google Alabama watering ban, I get a few hits about a city here or there, and an equal number talking about Alabama’s lack of a watering ban such as this one.

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/stories/2007/10/30/alawater_1031.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13.com

(So now Georgia wants to challenge the ESA because it didn’t request an exemption sooner? hmm)

It’s not that Georgia wasn’t requesting this sooner. The Corps of Engineers wasn’t. Georgia has been begging, pleading, falling on deaf ears for some time.

Everyone has a right to his own opinion just not a right to his own set of facts.

]]> By: ST http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-905 ST Thu, 22 Nov 2007 02:48:34 +0000 http://www.atlantawatershortage.com/20071119/new-record-low-for-lanier/#comment-905 It's occurred to me recently that the Endangered Species Act requirements in Florida have only taken center stage in the debate because it represents the only binding water contract between the tri-states during this crisis. Florida and Alabama are campaigning for the lives of shellfish merely because this is the basis of a federal law that keeps water flowing towards them to serve myriad other purposes, not the least of which includes cooling power plants for many of their residents. It's simply the easiest argument to make during this crisis, when negotiations for a permanent operations plan have stalled in legal proceedings spanning two decades. Sonny Perdue has latched onto the mussels issue with a spin to suit his own interests. The underlying fact remains the same: the Corps are bound by federal law to ensure a specific amount of water reaches Florida, and it is only by this rubric (under an Interim Operations Plan) that they are managing Lanier's water. The ongoing stalemate in the water war has finally caught up with the parties involved in the worst way. The inability of these states to reach a consensus is just another factor in the overall water management negligence that is chiefly responsible for the current crisis. -st It’s occurred to me recently that the Endangered Species Act requirements in Florida have only taken center stage in the debate because it represents the only binding water contract between the tri-states during this crisis.

Florida and Alabama are campaigning for the lives of shellfish merely because this is the basis of a federal law that keeps water flowing towards them to serve myriad other purposes, not the least of which includes cooling power plants for many of their residents. It’s simply the easiest argument to make during this crisis, when negotiations for a permanent operations plan have stalled in legal proceedings spanning two decades.

Sonny Perdue has latched onto the mussels issue with a spin to suit his own interests. The underlying fact remains the same: the Corps are bound by federal law to ensure a specific amount of water reaches Florida, and it is only by this rubric (under an Interim Operations Plan) that they are managing Lanier’s water. The ongoing stalemate in the water war has finally caught up with the parties involved in the worst way. The inability of these states to reach a consensus is just another factor in the overall water management negligence that is chiefly responsible for the current crisis.

-st

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